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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Can you put "exposure" in the bank? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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obrienmagic
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On May 20, 2017, WDavis wrote:
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On May 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
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On May 20, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Point is if you say no they will move on to the next magician, which is part of the problem and only devalues the performer and perpetuates magicians are simply interchangeable.


But if they say no and they move on so be it. If they think you are interchangeable it is your fault. You control that perception.

I su not believe Ferrari devalues themselves by sticking to a price point.


Danny, isn't the OP advocating that the magician work for free to generate "goodwill" from corporations? Personally, I think that's hogwash and is riddled with long term ramifications and flawed logic that's to long to post and will adversely hurt more businesses and industry perceptions. I've still got to finish my lexicon post before I can rip this idea of goodwill with corporations apart with facts.



Not sure what you mean. The point of my post is to promote the idea that it isn't necessarily about short term quick money payments. That sometimes a well placed time donation can actually benefit your company in the long run. Not sure how doing so is "hogwash." is America's got talent a paid gig? If not why do so many performers do it? Obviously if you win then you get paid, but imo most do it to help get their name out there. Correct me if I am wrong?
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Ken Northridge wrote:
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On May 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes I think so as well, but like to assume the best of people. It is my weakness.


This is not a weakness. Its a wonderful quality to have!

Frankly, the OP is shocking to me. I've tried to reserve judgement, but the fact of the matter is we don't know what kind of success this 'wisdom' produces. It would be nice to know if the podcast points to concrete results.

Its certainly something I would never recommend. I don't think I ever did a free show for 'exposure', even when I was first starting out. My time is valuable and worth something. Donating your time to a charity you believe in is fine, but I would never expect anything in return except the gratification I got from helping someone.

I just don't understand this mind set.


If you are in a position where you have gigs flowing in then you don't need the extra exposure. However not everyone is able to do that. I have a family to feed lol. If I know that I can benefit from a well placed gig then I will take it.
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, charliecheckers wrote:
I think things have to be further sorted out here. Free shows is a broad topic where the circumstances vary. The OP offered a video sharing a situation where someone contacted him asking for a free show. This is much different than pursuing a client or business opportunity. One may believe doing a free show in any circumstance is a poor choice, but I think for the sake of fully exploring what the OP offered as possibly being good advice, we should really focus on the situation where one is asked to perform for free, then discuss if there are any circumstances where one would be wise to accept or even pursue a counter proposal.


To shed a bit more light, the company in question (who I won't name) was an entertainment company that does a ton of charity work. They asked me to do a time slot in there festival which promoted artists of all sorts. I was actually the only magician so my show was packed. The event was aimed at raising awareness to the arts for children. They did not have a budget, however offered me a booth to sell products and advertise my services for that day. I handed out a ton of flyers and sold a few books. In return I have booked private children shows. Does this help clear anything up maybe?
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
In the spirit of understanding it might be a good time for Tom to tell us when his last paid show was and how often. Post those videos promised. Only because HE wanted to.

I am always curious as to why one who does not do this professionally on any level has so many loud opinions on literally EVERY single subject? Almost a nurosis.

I wish the OP would come back and clarify his experience for us. I think it can be a great discussion (Without Tom that is.). This is a point of view many share and exploring it can be educational. He nay be 100% correct for himself. Nothing wrong withthat. I would just encourage him to pop in and share more of his experience. It is certainly valid and interesting.


See the above comment. I think it may help clarify
obrienmagic
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Last few points... hopefully you guys have read my above comments. I just want to say a few things.

1. My goal is to generate discussion and this topic is one surrounded by controversy in itself so I had no doubts that it would cause a bit of discussion. I just had no idea it would be as quick as it was.
2.I was gone for a while helping take care of my 1 month old daughter. If anyone is butthurt because I did not respond right away Tough.....
3. To those who decided to start fighting with each other and make stupid comments, I suggest we try actually discussing the content at hand and not attack each other... what are we 5?
4. The post was kept vague on purpose. The original point was to counter the argument that "exposure doesn't pay my bills." I offered an example in which it could be used to pay the bills if done strategically.
5. I guarantee you that people who say that I am diminishing the art by doing work for free are the same ones who are doing lunch demos for schools or library demos. Don't be a hypocrite.
6. If you have never worked a free gig in your life and are a regular performer who charges a lot and still gets work. Good for you. Not everyone is there yet. Even I cannot charge KTLA to have me yet. Not quite that big of a name in the industry.
7. Thank you so much to those of you who actually provided your feedback. Whether I agree with it or not, know that it is valued! What I do not agree with is name calling, bullying or being an *** just because you feel like someone disagrees with your view.
8. It is good to bring up these controversial topics because it helps us think. All of my videos are meant to create discussion. So I applaud you guys for actually joining in and having a goo talk so far.
9. QUESTIONS??? Smile
Dannydoyle
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Not at all but glad it worked for you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Not at all but glad it worked for you.


it didn't clarify? I can't get any more specific than that lol
Dannydoyle
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It classified your position. It didn't clarify that it is a good thing in the least.

You choose to ignore most of the points Walter and I and Ken made and that is ok. It is hardly clarifying though.

What was clarified was you are a relatively new performer who is still trying to get your name out there and are doing this to generate work. Nothing wrong with that. It seems like this is a good way to do that for you now. Some of us simply disagree.

Again congrats on the daughter.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Wow, I had it right about the event. I’m a pretty good guesser if I have to say so myself. Smile


Thanks Michael for clarifying.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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And I don't think it devalues the art at all. I don't think the art cares in one way or the other. Iv thin the only one it hurts is you.

Also posts made to be intentionally vague seem pointless.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It classified your position. It didn't clarify that it is a good thing in the least.

You choose to ignore most of the points Walter and I and Ken made and that is ok. It is hardly clarifying though.

What was clarified was you are a relatively new performer who is still trying to get your name out there and are doing this to generate work. Nothing wrong with that. It seems like this is a good way to do that for you now. Some of us simply disagree.

Again congrats on the daughter.


I became a full time professional about 8 months ago. Up until then it was just on the weekends. I have been making a pretty good living so far. To clarify further. I don't take these free gigs left and right. I have taken 2 of them this year. Both were public events. Thank you Smile
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
And I don't think it devalues the art at all. I don't think the art cares in one way or the other. Iv thin the only one it hurts is you.

Also posts made to be intentionally vague seem pointless.


Ok cool. I won't post vague posts anymore.
Dannydoyle
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ANY professional working and supporting his family is good for the art in general.

Yes 8 months is very new. Thank you for clarifying. That helps quite a bit. It certainly puts things in perspective.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
ANY professional working and supporting his family is good for the art in general.

Yes 8 months is very new. Thank you for clarifying. That helps quite a bit. It certainly puts things in perspective.


I have been doing magic professionally for 10 years lol but just recently jumped off the comfort cliff and left my 9-5 to do it full time
Dannydoyle
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And it is that leap that makes the difference.

You add lol a lot to sentences.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
And it is that leap that makes the difference.

You add lol a lot to sentences.


It is a "butthurt countermeasure" that I have developed. I think I sound kind of angry or stern sometimes so the LOL makes it sound like I'm just being lighthearted or joking. Otherwise I get the "why you so mad bro" comments when in reality I'm over here laughing at something silly my daughter just did lol.... dammit... you see? I did that one just out of habit!
Dannydoyle
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To be fair you never seem angry to me. Passionate perhaps and that is necessary. But never angry.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
obrienmagic
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On May 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
To be fair you never seem angry to me. Passionate perhaps and that is necessary. But never angry.


that is good to know! Smile
WDavis
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Obrien,

I saw you replied to my counter pst regarding b2b. In the context you've described above, a charity work to get exposure to the consumer markets. This isn't a business to business donation to drum up more corporate business as alluded. This was a charitable event. Your end plan was targeting retail (consumer) buyers. This strategy makes sense in that framework, but to say give corporations a donated job to generate a possibility for future corporate work is flawed.

You are working b2c, and that context if stated would have eliminated most of the conflegration of this thread. This is why I've been clamoring for context, we all can only interpret within our understandings and if a context isn't given we will create one. Most times it's what we know and that context could be wrong, as demonstrated here.

I applaud you going full time and making a go as a performer. All I ask is if you do post here in tricky is provide context, we are all working to remove a lot of the agression, misunderstandings, and improve engagement. Posts with context are the first steps and vague posts to generate a reaction don't help the greater cause.

Thanks again for following up, many don't.
obrienmagic
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To be fair I never said I give corporations free work to get more free work from them lol I took a free gig to pitch myself to their customers to book me for private eventsthabj you though for the kind words.!
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