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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Can you put "exposure" in the bank? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TomBoleware
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Well I tried to tell everyone Walter. Smile

I knew exactly what he was talking about.

Ya’ll gonna learn to listen to this ole man one day. Smile

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Regardless of the event your advice is horrible.

You are still not a professional.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 21, 2017, obrienmagic wrote:
If you knew my situation (which you obviously don't because you just assume what you want to) then you would know that I am a working magician who also runs an online store, who is also trying to book gigs who is also a stay at home father who is also trying to support his family including a full time student wife who doesn't work.


I'm sorry you are incorrect, as I do know and am very familiar with your situation. I believe it was me that actually brought up and referred to your products, releases and store. I also know you as a part-time performer. Congrats on going full-time recently.

My point was when you start offering opinion disguised as advice there are expectations and responsibilities that come along with that. Speaking vaguely, as you can tell from this thread, really serves no purpose real world advice or issues and doesn't further the discussion or help anyone. As Walter has pointed out context and specifics create a world of difference.

As I suspected this is really consumer-market perceptions and opinions, which again if clarified from the beginning would have allowed others here the proper context from which to respond and participate.

I'm also very sorry and disappointed to hear that "had a paid gig come up, I would have canceled the other one." Very unprofessional at either level of operations.

"If it bothers you so much that it has been a week since I replied..." - that is only for this post. I'm still waiting for more contributions from you from your April 5th drop-in-to-promote only post.

You are still relatively new, yet you are offering advice to others when it is evident that you are still in the early learning process yourself. I'm sorry the "too busy" excuse doesn't cut it with me. I run all five of my businesses while being on the road since March, sometimes traveling 16 hours a day, doing two or three full 90 minute shows per night, and I still can find the time to post. I built my entire entertainment group while being a single parent (from having a less than a one year old), performing full-time and establishing my production company, several agencies and a daily radio show for ABC affiliates. It's a matter of priority and responsibility and structure, if you are in fact here for more than to just promote your "podcast".

Also the KTLA thing is different than what almost everyone here is taking about. No one here understands the press and media angle more than myself which is exactly what I written about extensively in my Press & Media For Entertainers book. That is not the same thing that most are discussing in this thread, again because of the vague position of your post.

I'm all for your controversial topics as long as context is provided so we're all discussing the same thing.

Not sure what Tom thinks he is right about. The only things proven is that Michael performs consumer markets (which I said quite early in this thread) and that could have been determined with some context. And that vague posts really aren't helping anyone and have little value. Since he provided some context there is so much more to be gained from this thread.


Thanks Michael for returning and participating. I only wish you would have done this on your own wanting to participate rather than myself, charliecheckers, Walter, Danny and others having to ask for you to participate in your own thread.
obrienmagic
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Quote:
On May 21, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On May 21, 2017, obrienmagic wrote:
If you knew my situation (which you obviously don't because you just assume what you want to) then you would know that I am a working magician who also runs an online store, who is also trying to book gigs who is also a stay at home father who is also trying to support his family including a full time student wife who doesn't work.


I'm sorry you are incorrect, as I do know and am very familiar with your situation. I believe it was me that actually brought up and referred to your products, releases and store. I also know you as a part-time performer. Congrats on going full-time recently.

My point was when you start offering opinion disguised as advice there are expectations and responsibilities that come along with that. Speaking vaguely, as you can tell from this thread, really serves no purpose real world advice or issues and doesn't further the discussion or help anyone. As Walter has pointed out context and specifics create a world of difference.

As I suspected this is really consumer-market perceptions and opinions, which again if clarified from the beginning would have allowed others here the proper context from which to respond and participate.

I'm also very sorry and disappointed to hear that "had a paid gig come up, I would have canceled the other one." Very unprofessional at either level of operations.

"If it bothers you so much that it has been a week since I replied..." - that is only for this post. I'm still waiting for more contributions from you from your April 5th drop-in-to-promote only post.

You are still relatively new, yet you are offering advice to others when it is evident that you are still in the early learning process yourself. I'm sorry the "too busy" excuse doesn't cut it with me. I run all five of my businesses while being on the road since March, sometimes traveling 16 hours a day, doing two or three full 90 minute shows per night, and I still can find the time to post. I built my entire entertainment group while being a single parent (from having a less than a one year old), performing full-time and establishing my production company, several agencies and a daily radio show for ABC affiliates. It's a matter of priority and responsibility and structure, if you are in fact here for more than to just promote your "podcast".

Also the KTLA thing is different than what almost everyone here is taking about. No one here understands the press and media angle more than myself which is exactly what I written about extensively in my Press & Media For Entertainers book. That is not the same thing that most are discussing in this thread, again because of the vague position of your post.

I'm all for your controversial topics as long as context is provided so we're all discussing the same thing.

Not sure what Tom thinks he is right about. The only things proven is that Michael performs consumer markets (which I said quite early in this thread) and that could have been determined with some context. And that vague posts really aren't helping anyone and have little value. Since he provided some context there is so much more to be gained from this thread.


Thanks Michael for returning and participating. I only wish you would have done this on your own wanting to participate rather than myself, charliecheckers, Walter, Danny and others having to ask for you to participate in your own thread.


I agree with everything that you said except that I am obligated to come back to the thread, check it and reply right away. I am not at all obligated to do so. It is a discussion forum, not part of my obligations. I do not owe anyone here in the Café my time. You seem to know what you are talking about, however my "excuse" that I have been busy is valid. This is a magic discussion forum...... I stand by my statement earlier that if I don't reply right away.... too bad.... I also have topics in several of the pages on here. Sorry if I cannot keep up with them all. And before you say it I will say NO, it is not my "responsibility" to keep up on them all and make sure I am commenting regularly.

Thank you for your imput I will take advice just as much if not more than I give it. I think my participation on this forum overall has been very interactive and I participate a lot. If I leave a few "go look at my products and blog" posts here and there, so be it. haha

Im not going to lose sleep over something as stupid as a magic discussion board. Sorry I can perform at the same level that you can (5 businesses single parent etc.) we are not all as great of a human as you are after all Smile
obrienmagic
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Its fine... I just won't post any of my stuff here anymore.... I'll comment but I won't start discussions that way I don't let anyone down.
Mindpro
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That's too bad. Unfortunately you are missing the point.
obrienmagic
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I think its kind of disrespectful the way you have been talking to me but ok you are right you win. Goodnight. (Don't get mad if I don't reply anymore on here because the discussion has turned into you telling me that I need to post more and has nothing to do with the original topic anymore so as far as I am concerned it is over with. If you truly want to help you will PM me and tell me what point I am missing. Because right now all I see is someone trying to prove how much better than me they are.

Night! Smile
Mindpro
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Yes, I will happily PM you since that what you seem to want, as I think you are missing my point as well of it being it is disrespectful to only promote without contributing. It has nothing to do with anyone being better than anyone else.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 21, 2017, obrienmagic wrote:
Its fine... I just won't post any of my stuff here anymore.... I'll comment but I won't start discussions that way I don't let anyone down.


Ooo no. Don't do that. Seriously don't do that.

Start discussions. Having a different point of view is ok. Heck it should be MANDATORY!

Now we know you better and your intent and your level and who you are. Please don't. You are not obligated to do this. I just happen to be of the believe that a world with more perspectives is a more interesting one.

Again don't stop. No more than I should have to stop being me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Yep, just leave it to Mindpro and Danny.

It's Sad they can't see past their nose.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Oh lord Tom you just can't stop.

I was the one who said he was probably busy and he and I are conversing. What exactly is your problem? Send a pm if you have one. Don't subject the world to this unprofessional behavior.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Oh Now you two are wanting to bully and insult by PM.

Got you, but no thanks.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Show me where I bullied and insulted him Tom.
Just one post.

He started a controversial topic and we discuss as he wanted. Show me where I or Walter or Ken insulted him or apologize.

Stop this behavior. It belittles you even more if possible. Just let the adults talk.

You do this literally on EVERY thread and it is tiresome.

If you have a problem with how Mindpro addressed him talk to him. It is none of your business, but that never stopped you from opening your mouth before. But don't lump me in. You have become a big hindrance to this section and you need to stop. Believe it or not everything doesn't involve you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, two posts above you say. “Having a different point of view is ok”

I laughed out loud when I read that. I really did.

Ok, I will leave you with this thought, that is two pros just this month that have said,
“it’s just not worth the hassle to post here.”

And you right I should stop pointing it out, It's very clear to all now.




Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 22, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Oh Now you two are wanting to bully and insult by PM.

Got you, but no thanks.

Tom




He’s definitely not understanding my points as well as several others here and obviously misinterpreting them. So I’d be happy to help him to better understand the points many of us here are making and why, if he’s sincere about it, which I believe he was. I didn't PM him as I wanted to wait until this morning to give him and the PM the proper time, attention and detail he and it deserves.

What is wrong with trying to help him to better understand? Especially since he is clearly misinterpreting what I've said by statements like "all I see is someone trying to prove how much better than me they are," "I won't start discussions that way I don't let anyone down," and "Im not going to lose sleep over something as stupid as a magic discussion board." Many here take this forum quite seriously and are here to learn and advance their business with applicable knowledge more than with general "shoot the breeze conversation" as in other forums on the Café. He clearly isn't understanding this so I would be more than willing to help him to better clarify and understand. He clearly sees himself as a regular contributor as he said which he isn't seeing this here as others do, and I'm sure his level of performance and performance markets could be better clarified and helpful too. Several others here have given me suggestion for him as well which I would happily include. When everyone is on the same page everything is much more productive.

Tom, I don’t see how helping someone to understand something here is “bullying” him, especially since he’s asking. You and that imagination of yours just runs wild with misperceptions that don’t exist or worse yet that you create "in your mind" and then cast upon everyone here. You’ve been asked to stop and for whatever reason choose to continue. Maybe you should just worry about Tom as I'm sure Michael is just fine on his own.

I agree good discussion is always welcome which again was my point about him contributing in his own post from the beginning. If you look back you will find I was the one who first suggested this and hoped for his return for some proper context. Again, lets separate fact from opinion.

Again none of this Tom stuff has anything to do with the business of entertainment. You can tell by the way many posted in this thread they take this very seriously and many are quite passionate about helping and learning. This matters to many of us here Tom.

You are the only one who ever brings up attacking and bullying, again it's only this way "in your mind" not in reality when others here are really trying to help him to understand.

Then of course you always say you're leaving and will let us carry on with the topic (go back and seriously check every thread you've derailed with the same old nonsense), yet you continue to do this to almost EVERY SINGLE THREAD. That seems like a greater form of attacking and bullying Tom. It just brings down every single thread when recently many of us have been enjoying some great topics and forward contributions and movement here.

In almost every single thread Danny has to point out you are NOT a performer and you do not have a ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS (facts), you then start attacking Danny every time and derail the thread. On top of that you never answer his posed legitimate questions. Take a look at the bigger picture here.
thomasR
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Mindpro... If you really wanted to help anyone but yourself, you would take a break from the Café and just watch how many real professionals would be happy to discuss business if they weren't constantly being told how wrong they are by a self-proclaimed expert. It's quite frustrating...
Mindpro
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Haha, I never proclaimed to be an expert, that is a title you, Tom and others have put upon me. I know its hard for many performers to hear the truth and receive constructive criticism, as I regularly say, being honest with oneself in terms of level and experience is quite hard for many here. The truth of the matter is many performers do not see themselves in performance or in business as others see them. Sorry if some get bent by me pointing this out when in reality, once understood and accepted, rather than taking offense it can be most helpful in almost every way to both their performance and business operations.

To me and obviously many others it is very frustrating for misinformation to be presented as fact or "me-based" "in my mind" mentalities offered as if industry or professional standards. Since much if this misinformation can only lead to setbacks, disappointments, unsuccessful attempts and discouragement, it seems to me that is the frustrating element most should be concerned with, not someone offering valid insight.

And how is trying to help someone to better understand something helping myself?
TomBoleware
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Mindpro, I have never said one single bad word to anybody here except you and Danny. I just return the favor that you continue to dish out on me. I have asked both of you to not respond to my posts and I would not respond to yours, but you said no deal. And for the record, NOBODY else has ever said one single word out of the way to me. They show respect regardless of the experience or opinion. They act like a real professional would act. I appreciate them and respect all of them. That should tell you something.

Maybe Michael didn’t come here to learn, and he sure didn’t come here to be lectured. Why can’t you understand that everyone doesn’t come here to learn from you? They like to see other opinions and they don’t want all the other opinions to be belittled. Most are adults and they can decide for themselves without being forced to think one way. Why can’t you see that?

So please stop blaming me for the problem and go look in the mirror if you want to see the real problem.

Anyways, got to run.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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obrienmagic
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I don't mind different points of view... hell I don't mind if you guys think that my point or topic was completely wrong and you corrected it... what I am upset about is you telling me that all I do on here is self promote which is bull because I try to stay pretty active then the me that I have an obligation to respond to comments right away.... the original post was literally 3 days ago..... which means I went two days without looking at it.... I also post in a lot of different pages on here so sometimes I forget which ones I have active discussions going in.

The original intent of my youtube channel is to start discussion and give advice on how I do things. That is why I posted the video and actually asked a question on your thoughts. Otherwise I would have just dropped the video in the "workers" section and said "New video check it out" and been done with it. The reason I feel disrespected is not because of the fact that I was told my opinion was wrong, but because I was accused of s=doing something I didn't do. Then when I tried to explain myself, was told my excuse wasn't good enough.


This is why I don't want to post on here anymore.... we are literally not even discussing my topic anymore... we are fighting with each other... and it happens all the time..... I'm going to stick to the T11 Forums. If you guys want to follow up on my content you are welcome to do so over there. I think I am going to take a break from TMC for now.

Feel free to message me on Facebook or email me if you have any questions, but for now I think I am going to log out from TMC and not use it for awhile.

obrienmagic@gmail.com

Thanks to those who have a view on the topic at hand and either agreed or disagreed with my points. That was all I wanted was to see some different viewpoints from mine.
TKD27
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Quote:
On May 21, 2017, obrienmagic wrote:
Quote:
On May 19, 2017, TKD27 wrote:
I feel like this kind of thing makes a lot of sense when you're first starting out and building a name for yourself, but obviously is a bad idea once you're established. But yeah - if you're business is young and you're not going to have paying work, then do free gigs because you're investing your time in advertising. Instead of investing money on Adwords, you're investing your time to get out there and showcase yourself to potential clients. I did this in the beginning and, like you, would often book paying gigs off that work.

But once you're established it doesn't make sense. You have to remember that a free gig means you're going to turn away paying work to do it. But also, you have to factor that lost revenue in to the cost of the shows you book. So supposed you pass up a single $200 paying event in order to do a free gig, and you then book two $200 shows from the free gig, you're essentially doing those two shows for $100 each. Now, again, that might make a lot of sense when you're starting out and establishing yourself. But it's a bad idea when you're already established.


I am at a point right now where I do not need to necessarily take gigs for free. I do not let people "talk me into" anything. lol However, let us assume for a minute that an opportunity came along where I would be able to benefit from it. Sort of a qui pro quo situation. For example, I recently was contacted by KTLA 5 to do a spot with them. It was not a paid gig. However, IMO it also wasn't "free" either, because the amount of exposure I would be getting out of it, plus promo material, plus recognition, etc. balances out. So did I hurt the art by appearing on their channel for "free?" This is a thing where we are not talking about the art of magic, but rather the business side of it. From a business perspective I saw it as an opportunity to improve my company so I took it. It in NO WAY devalues what I do or the art.


Were you replying to me here? You quoted me, but seem to replying to points I didn't make. And I didn't say anything about devaluing the art... I even said that I did free shows when starting out in order to benefit my business, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

That said, I do have to add this: doing a TV spot is not nearly the same as working a gig for free. Obviously that is excellent exposure, but that's not what your video was about. The two aren't the same thing.
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