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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Heads up - The Kube. (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Christopher Gould
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I just had a heads up from an old friend in Magic - Mr Jolyon Jenkins. He is a very clever chap, particularly in the field of electronics.
Some of you will remember that he put up some very tasty items on Alchemy Moon a year or so ago. As a testament to the quality of his work his inventions always sold out the very day I put them up there.
Back then, Jolyon was talking of a device that he was thinking of making - at the time, I though his idea to be too ambitious, but utterly amazing if he could get it to work. Well, it seems that he has!

He just sent me a link to a kickstarter he has just put up to find the project. It looks more than a little interesting to me, and I think it will to you too.

Go check it out - support something that deserves support, and bag something that will be genuinely wonderful. Also, help an old friend of mine by spreading the news.
Oh, and Jolyon is one of the good guys, so you will have no problems getting what you actually pay for.

Here is the link:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/184......agic-die
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
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pieaddict
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The kickstarter seems to be cancelled due to having a rethink.
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you."
Magical Dimensions
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Wow, that didn't last long...




Ray
Christopher Gould
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Well, it seems that Jolyon made a post on the Mentalist forum - which I have learnt from experience, is not always a good idea.
(BTW, I have not read the post over there, as I have not been on the mentalist forum for years - and there is a reason for this).

I hope it all get sorted out and Jolyon is a nice guy and a friend. Also, at the end of the day, it is a great idea that I would like to see have a chance of becoming a reality. .
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
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Dr SH
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Yes, their "inner thoughts" have not been very supportive ....
RCP
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Necromancer
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Gents, the Kickstarter (which any lay person could stumble upon) exposed the method, which the Kube maker does not own and which is common to several other products other performers are using before the public. Irresponsible. To further illustrate, here's RCP's post from the Inner Thoughts thread, with my response.

Quote:
On May 20, 2017, RCP wrote:
One thing you can always count on is the "hysterics" from this group. A simple google search of "mentalists dice trick" [LINK] exposes all.

Anyone believing you have "secrets" the public does not know of is living the lie. What some, very very few here, do have is the ability to make the public suspend belief and not care about the "secrets"


To turn your point around and make a similarly grandiose and self-important statement: Any magician or mentalist who believes he has no secrets before the public must not have a clue how to entertain an audience.

I'm a huge believer in the power of presentation; but if your audience already knows the secret, your response simply won't be the same as when they don't -- it's the difference between performing for laypeople versus for other magical/mental performers. The goal, as I have always understood it, is to to both amaze and engage.

There's also a world of difference between secrets that are discovered through active searching and those that the public can bump into accidentally, without looking for them. I understand the former (without such searches at my local library, I wouldn't be performing today). The searcher is rewarded with a secret after some amount of work (perhaps less because of technology, but the onus is still on him); it accords some value to the material.

The latter scenario, conversely, requires nothing of the viewer and only devalues our craft.
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
Philemon Vanderbeck
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Another aspect of being a good performer is the ability to make an audience member forget that they know the secret.

It's a beautiful moment when a layperson says to you that you couldn't have used the method they're familiar with, even though that's exactly how you did it.

However, I'm detracting from the original point of this thread, which is we shouldn't be exposing secrets in any form. Those should be only passed along to those who will appreciate and use them properly.
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Christopher Gould
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One point I would like to make in this incidental, but interesting debate, is that after many, many years of experience I have discovered one simple truth - the audience are far less interested in 'the secret' of a trick than the magician is - indeed, I would go as far as to say that they are not interested in the trick at all, but the *experience*. If this is not the case, then the performer is a trickster and has failed at being a magician.

One has to go back a long way to the days when methods were closely guarded secrets that were passed on from one individual to another (at often with a hefty price tag, as one performer is passing on his livelihood to another). As pointed out, it is now stupidly easy for even the most stupid audience member to google any method used by *any* magician. Sometimes they do, and there is nothing we can do to stop them - indeed, this level of interest may indicate that they are (like we were) interested enough in the art for us to foster their interest and direct it down the best path. In reality this is very rare. Why? On the whole people go to a show to be entertained, when the show is over, they move on with their life. Their focus is on *the experience they have had*, not on if they can crack the puzzle a clumsy magician set them. Again, if the latter is the case, then I will say that the performer is a very poor magician indeed, and what is more has insulted his or her audience by setting them a puzzle that he (or she) has no intention of giving resolution to.

Times have moved on, not only in terms of 'exposure' and the ease with which *anyone* can access information, but times have moved on in terms of the sophistication of the audience - they now demand much more than an evening of simple tricks - they want something more fulfilling than a magician parading his or her ego on a stage. In a world devoid of magic, then want to experience the possibility of the universe being more magical than there daily lives tell them that it is. The *real* secret of magic - is not the method of a trick, but magic itself - this is the true secret that we should be guarding, and the one secret that cannot be googled.

The best magicians give an experiences of magic, a poor magician does a trick.

***

Anyway, Jolyon is a nice guy and if he broke any codes, he did so unwittingly. I have not been over to the Mentalist forum and frankly refuse to do so (for my own mental health). I am less interested in the kind of behaviour that passes for discussion over there than I am in supporting fellow creatives and positively encouraging ideas to emerge.
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RCP
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You missed nothing of any value Chris, it was the usual hysterics followed by name calling and eventual vanishing of the thread. Your friend tried to do the right thing and was treated very shabbily. Invite him to join us at the more hospitable place.
afinemesh
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The guy bent over backwards (a number of times) to be civil and a gentleman and he got hammered.
No one cared about his point of view. It was all about their preception that he was revealing a secret that isn't even a secret(anymore).
"I've always been mental, I'm sure of it" Boris Pocus Smile


"Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny". . .Bruce Springsteen
Necromancer
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Quote:
On May 20, 2017, afinemesh wrote:
The guy bent over backwards (a number of times) to be civil and a gentleman and he got hammered.
No one cared about his point of view. It was all about their preception that he was revealing a secret that isn't even a secret(anymore).


No one is suggesting that he was anything less than pleasant. But to say the method "wasn't a secret anymore" does call into question the intelligence of anyone who would fund his mentalism product. It's a fallacious argument.
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
Darkness
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Ironically they bashed Jolyon then went on to expose RD. It's not even advertised on that "website" and is hidden from the mainstream. The second hand market won't mention it's name. It's no surprise Jolyon didn't know about it. Good job watch dogs you are the pot calling the kettle black.

Kickstarter for any "magic based trick" (I use the term loosely) is demonstrating bad judgement if you think public fund raising is a good idea. Especially, when you tip a method to an existing effect that cost over $1000. I wouldn't be too happy if I just bought it, would you? Forget about "how much" exposure that's irrelevant. I would naturally feel buyer remorse. I though we called this a brotherhood?

If we don't maintain some kind of "minimal" standard who will? The other guy? Nothing wrong with a little respect for tradition? Or leading by example. But you are right times have changed and most likely you will do an effect for people and they will love and be none the wiser. But it's the principle of the thing, just because it won't make a dent doesn't mean we should kick it.
Necromancer
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Quote:
On May 20, 2017, Christopher Gould wrote:
One point I would like to make in this incidental, but interesting debate, is that after many, many years of experience I have discovered one simple truth - the audience are far less interested in 'the secret' of a trick than the magician is ....


You're preaching to the choir on this point, Christopher. Creating engrossing presentations has always been at the heart of Bizarre. But even if you have the best presentation in the world, without a strong effect that the audience can't see through, you're only fooling yourself.

Quote:
... indeed, I would go as far as to say that they are not interested in the trick at all, but the *experience*. If this is not the case, then the performer is a trickster and has failed at being a magician.


This assessment, while certainly a fine ideal, seems unduly harsh in the real world. Was it Burger or Neale who mentioned how, when performing Burger's version of Card Warp in front of an audience of engineers, they were absolutely interested in figuring things out? Certain personality types are simply that way, and even the most masterful performers recognize this.

Quote:
As pointed out, it is now stupidly easy for even the most stupid audience member to google any method used by *any* magician.

This is an oversimplification and patently false. I'm aware of numerous effects that cannot be Googled by "the most stupid audience member," or by the smartest one, for that matter. One of the benefits of amassing a library of old books.

Quote:
Anyway, Jolyon is a nice guy and if he broke any codes, he did so unwittingly. I have not been over to the Mentalist forum and frankly refuse to do so (for my own mental health). I am less interested in the kind of behaviour that passes for discussion over there than I am in supporting fellow creatives and positively encouraging ideas to emerge.


Again, I'm sure Mr. Jenkins is a perfectly nice person, and that this was all a poorly thought-through mistake. But let's not pretend that it wasn't, in fact, a mistake.

I too am interested in supporting fellow creatives and encouraging ideas to emerge ... responsibly. When I offer a new piece of my own material to fellow performers, I have the responsibility to thoroughly research its precedents, to obtain permission, to give credit, to produce it with quality, and to treat its method with care so as to preserve its performance value. That's all I expect of any creator in our magical world.
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
Brynmore14
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It should be acknowledged that this is far from the first magic kickstarter campaign ever run, although the others might have been more circumspect regarding method.
RCP
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Thou doth protest to much

Google search "Neal Tobin magic tricks"

https://www.google.com/search?q=neil+tob......ie=UTF-8

🙀
Necromancer
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Quote:
On May 22, 2017, RCP wrote:
Thou doth protest to much

Google search "Neal Tobin magic tricks"

https://www.google.com/search?q=neil+tob......ie=UTF-8

🙀


I'm not seeing any exposure. My work is being marketed responsibly. What point are you trying to make?
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
the Sponge
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The other issue, I don't see mentioned here, was that he wasn't adding anything new to an already populated effect. It wasn't improved or different.

s
RCP
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Quote:
On May 22, 2017, Necromancer wrote:
Quote:
On May 22, 2017, RCP wrote:
Thou doth protest to much

Google search "Neal Tobin magic tricks"

https://www.google.com/search?q=neil+tob......ie=UTF-8

🙀


I'm not seeing any exposure. My work is being marketed responsibly. What point are you trying to make?


Yourself, the magic dealers and the magic community in general exposed (sold) more "secrets" to the public than this poor gent. He was treated very shabbily.
RCP
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Quote:
On May 22, 2017, the Sponge wrote:
The other issue, I don't see mentioned here, was that he wasn't adding anything new to an already populated effect. It wasn't improved or different.

s



When has that standard every been enforced? Do you hold Murphy's to that standard?
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