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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » SansMinds Magic » » Mind Invasion by Morgan Strebler... Awesome # (33 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Stunninger
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Quote:
On May 29, 2017, Magic Life wrote:

We all know that many effects were released before like that, but it doesn't mean that its good to do.

Magic


Well said, Magic Life.

If a creator wants to release a previously published effect under a new name, have the courtesy to tell your customers (and potential customers) what you are doing. This way customers who already bought the initial release know they already have the effect.

Customers are going to find out anyway. Why not just be upfront about it?

If the new release is significantly different, e.g. includes new handlings or new routines not offered in the first release, some may want to buy both.

On the other hand, if the content is essential the same, with the only difference being the name of the effect is changed, all that does is create confusion.
NeilS
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Given the different names and ways this has been released, for anyone wanting to learn the peek, which is the best and most helpful buy?
Jared
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Neil, I don't own the Peter's book so I cannot comment about that. But the tutorial is short and I had to watch the sequence several times to fully grasp all the nuances. But where the video shines the most is understanding the pacing and choreography. I haven't performed this for audiences yet, but after practicing it more over the weekend I'm getting very comfortable with the handling.
ahehe7
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Quote:
On May 30, 2017, NeilS wrote:
Given the different names and ways this has been released, for anyone wanting to learn the peek, which is the best and most helpful buy?


I would recommend Peter Turner's pdf (Billets Vol. 4). You learn several different peeks, most of which are workable, and allows for a wider range of applications (should you not prefer to do a pocket watch position peek). He taught one that was behind the back, one in an envelope, and many more. You not only get the effects he believes in but also a few good words on his thoughts on peeking and mentalism in general.

In my opinion, much better value for your buck.
Aerospace Engineer by trade, Magician by passion.

http://AhItsAllenHe.com
Jheff
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Quote:
On May 29, 2017, Magic Life wrote:
In simple words you mean that magicians here have to waste money for the same product.

Okay, since you asked, I'll use simple words: No, that's not what I mean and that's not what I said. I would never say that and if you read what I wrote carefully or follow my reviews, you'd know that.

Besides, you're not buying the same product. One is a PDF that contains a fairly poor description of the technique and is part of a larger collection of work. MIND INVASION is an exploration of just that one technique and provides more detail. Many creators have released items separately that they had previously published in a book. Often there is a name change and sometimes the ad blurb will inform you of this. And most of the time the separate release goes into more details and/or supplies the necessary props in order to do the trick. Yes, you'd be buying the same trick, but it's a totally different product due to the more in-depth examination, or a video instruction, or the inclusion of props. You're not always "wasting" your money and it's absurd to make such generalities. And note that I did agree, and did say as such, that Morgan should have mentioned it's previous release.

My point, and I'll make it again, is that's more productive to discuss whether the item delivers what it promises. In this case, it does.


Quote:
We all know that many effects were released before like that, but it doesn't mean that its good to do.

I only implied that commercial companies will do things to make their products more commercial. It's their nature. I did not say that it was "good to do."

- Jheff
Marketplace of the Mind THE LAZY MENTALIST'S CARD TRICK is now available!!
Max Hazy
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Jheff, I agree with you that this technique isn't original as they claim... but you're being very naive here as a costumer.

Even if it's explored better in the DVD, it STILL the same technique. The PDF have many other techniques, insights, ideas, etc... DVD will do the same, but with a single technique. The only difference is that the DVD will have the visual aspect. It's NOT poorly described in the PDF as you say, I can absolutely understand everything reading it (and there are pictures), just maybe not fully explored. But it's up to us to explore it anyway... if you can't use a tool being unique with it, if you have to copy somebody else because you're not creative, you're already doing it wrong.

The quibble is not about the name change, is about the context of the name change. As I said:

"In the common market, if you have a product and change it's name, no problem... people can see exactly what the product is, what it does, how it works, etc. That's not the case in our market... there's a secret to be kept and you will only know what you get after the money is gone. It's easy to understand why the change of name was malicious. Again, disrespectful to say the least."

For this, I have to disagree with you that the warn about previous release "wasn't necessary". If someone who has the PDF buys this thinking it's a different technique from the PDF, that person will definitely feel cheated. You don't have to be a genius to see that. So I have to agree with ahehe7: You get much more from the PDF. Is the technique worth getting? Depends on your preferences... It's the DVD more worth getting than the PDF? Definitely not... Unless you want to focus on this technique and want to see a live performance, you will get MUCH more from the PDF.

For all of that in this context, I don't think you have a point here that it deliver what it promises. In fact, I don't understand how you can say that it deliver what it promises and simultaneously say that this is definitely not original as they claim.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Stunninger
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We said Max. Agree with all you write, especially your statement:

"In the common market, if you have a product and change it's name, no problem... people can see exactly what the product is, what it does, how it works, etc. That's not the case in our market... there's a secret to be kept and you will only know what you get after the money is gone. It's easy to understand why the change of name was malicious. Again, disrespectful to say the least."

I went ahead and got the video to compare to the PDF. After reviewing both, I do think the peek is taught quite poorly in the PDF, and instruction much better in the video. That said, after practicing the peek about 75 times, using normal thickness business card stock as well as extra thick business card stock, the card still has a tendency to "talk" when opened. Even after preparing the card as suggested. It does help to slow down and make the moves very slowly and deliberately. But even so, I still find the noise the card makes to be an issue in quite environments.

My personal opinion is other business card peeks are more practical and deceptive.
Mr. Mindbender
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Like Stunninger, I bought the DVD although I already owned the PDF. When it comes to peeks and billet tears, I learn so much more from seeing it in action, so although I knew the mechanics from the PDF, I still gained great value from seeing the peek executed in real time from various angles.
Jheff
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Quote:
On Jun 2, 2017, Max Hazy wrote:
Jheff, I agree with you that this technique isn't original as they claim... but you're being very naive here as a costumer.

I'm being naive?!? For the record, Max, because I'm not certain you know, I've been providing mentalists with reviews of mentalism products from the viewpoint of an experienced mentalist for nearly twenty years now. It's one thing if you disagree with me, and you're more than welcome to as my opinions are simply that, and not facts. But calling me "naive" is, well, naive. And I'm definitely not a "costumer." Although, admittedly, if I was a costumer, I probably would be naive about this.

Most mentalists value ideas and often are buying products from creators who have built or expanded upon their own ideas. Name changes to me are trivial so long as the product delivers something that's worth the money, but apparently that's not the opinion to some who are reading this. That's what I meant by it delivers and those who read my website and/or newsletters know that in my comments about MIND INVASION, I've clearly pointed out the deception of the ad blurb.

I found the PDF somewhat confusing to learn from and the DVD much better. For those who were able to learn it and master it from the PDF, good for you. But if you really think a DVD that describes one technique and goes into great detail on it is the same as an illustrated PDF that contains many valuable techniques on billet work, including Morgan's peek, then there's nothing left me to say, because I'd just be repeating myself.

- Jheff
Marketplace of the Mind THE LAZY MENTALIST'S CARD TRICK is now available!!
Max Hazy
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Jheff, I don't want to get in an argument here. But I think some points must be clear:

1) I disagree with you when you say that the mention of the name change "wasn't necessary"... It sure was. So far you're the only one I've seem to think that. That comment imo made you look either like a naive costumer (who buys things with no idea what is getting) or a questionable reviewer (with something to gain from it), but I don't think it's the latter because you've been quite honest about some bad aspects of the technique. What I don't get is how you can say that the warn about the change of name "wasn't necessary" in this context. That's why I used the word "naive". You're an experienced mentalist providing reviews for 20 years and can't see the necessity of the mention? So basically it's ok for you if the owners of the pdf get the same technique in the DVD without knowing it???? What do you expect me to think of it??? The problem is obvious and I'll say it for the 3rd time:

"In the common market, if you have a product and change it's name, no problem... people can see exactly what the product is, what it does, how it works, etc. That's not the case in our market... there's a secret to be kept and you will only know what you get after the money is gone. It's easy to understand why the change of name was malicious. Again, disrespectful to say the least."

2) I never said that what's on the DVD is the same thing in the PDF, you're putting words in my mouth here. I said you get much more than a single technique in the PDF: you get ideas, essays and other techniques and methods. For me (and others) the value for money goes to the PDF. Sure, the DVD have the visual aspect and will explore the technique better... but it still the same technique in the pdf (which have other techniques). Plus it's one thing to buy knowing what you're getting, and another when you don't know.

3) I have the pdf and I was thinking about getting the DVD, but I was suspecting because in both the DVD and the PDF is mentioned that it's the only peek Morgan used for years. So he either lied or it is the same peek. Thankfully there were costumers to confirm it is the same peek. I'm not going to buy the DVD. If someone have the pdf and wants to go deeper in this technique with the DVD, go for it. That's not my case and if it happened to me, may as well happen to others.

4) I made my points clear and I don't want to get in an argument. If you were offended by the word naive, it wasn't my intention to offend. As far as I know naive means taken with innocence or without malice. I don't mean the word as a fool or something, but english isn't my main language so I'm making my intention clear. I said naive in the sense that you didn't give enough thought about the subject (as I wrote in the point "1").

I have no problem with you, but I had to point that your position had a giant flaw imo. Maybe you expressed yourself in a bad way or maybe you didn't realize these details, but I have no issue with you. My issue here is with Morgan. I've heard bad stories about him in the past and now I'm seeing it first hand.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Woodfield
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Quote:
On May 29, 2017, Jheff wrote:

Yes, this is a good peeking technique and it's certainly worth getting. The price is very fair for this. However, it's not quite original and definitely NOT "like no other"! The idea of a full card peek while the hands are in pocket watch position is not new. What's new is the technique in doing it and, really, we're talking only about what the fingers do. As an example, Richard Busch's Zen Billet (published in his PEEK ENCORES, which is now out of print) does the same thing but it's the fingers of the left hand that do the work. This is different from what Morgan uses. (Please note that my description of Richard's handling is quite vague and only specific enough to point out the difference.) Richard is only one. There have been a few others exploring this and, again, the only difference really being how that key "secret move" is accomplished.

- Jheff
www.MarketplaceoftheMind.com


Sorry, the technique is not new either. This is the exact handling of ***********'s Phoenix Peek (2006) http://www.lybrary.com/phoenix-peek-p-6009.html
I have both products.

I have my own variation of the Phoenix Peek that provides a stealthier way of getting into the peek.
Exitmat
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This is so good. Absolutely love it. Perfect for pre-show and drawing duplications.
Jeff Wassom
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Thought this was pretty slick as well. Have Peter's Billets #4 but couldn't figure the p**k out, so this was a nice visual supplement.
Jheff
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2017, Woodfield wrote:
Sorry, the technique is not new either. This is the exact handling of ***********'s Phoenix Peek (2006)


Woodfield, for various reasons, I am not familiar with Xavier's handling. But, as I sort of implied, I'm not surprised.

Max, I don't think you quite understand that I feel that you are totally wrong. I told that you that I don't mind if you disagree with my thinking and opinions, but you should, in turn, respect mine. To continue to say my opinion is flawed and that I am a naive "costumer" (I still don't know what that is) because you feel I'm wrong, is simply rude and I have little time for someone with that attitude. Thank you, though, for saying that you have a problem with Morgan and not me. I have heard things about Morgan, too, but when I review products I review the product, not the creator.
Marketplace of the Mind THE LAZY MENTALIST'S CARD TRICK is now available!!
Max Hazy
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Jhef, I don't "feel" you're wrong. I even listed factual observations to argue, there's no "feelings" in my position. You had access to the product and you're not the creator nor the seller, that's why I was referring to you as a customer (client). You're probably just being picky about the misspelling (I don't know what happened with the automatic corrector, but a word to the wise is sufficient).

Btw, I'm not reviewing anything here. I was confirming my suspects about the product (what that implies about the morality of the seller is another story). You're the only one in this topic to say that the mention of the name change wasn't necessary. You have the right to defend a disrespectful position of a seller as much as you wish, but if you think your 20 years of review will make your defense more valid, I have bad news for you.

I won't say you're wrong, I'll let whoever reads the topic decide for themselves what to think. All I wanted was to make an informed decision and point out a valid observation for others to make an informed decision as well.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
DavidKenney
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Title: Mind Invasion
Creator: Morgan Strebler
Publisher: Sans Minds
MSRP: $ 20
Skill Level: all
DVD Run time: 13 minutes

Type of effect:

Manufacturer's Write Up: From the mind of Mentalist Morgan Strebler, this is a creation he has developed for himself and, after over a decade, is now ready to share with the world! This is Mind Invasion!

Have someone write or draw anything they want on a piece of paper, whether a symbol or a word. With Mind Invasion, you apparently read their minds by revealing what was written down! A peeking technique like no other! Learn all the techniques necessary and freak out even the toughest, most skeptical audiences!

Some say peeking is the mother of Mentalism. While many peeking techniques have restrictions tied to them, this one has been refined to allow for the most versatile performances possible!

How accurate is the ad copy? No deception

What's in the box? 1 Mind Invasion Instructional DVD

Key points: No restrictions to Lighting, Positioning, or Tearing!

How are the production values: Chiefly it’s 2 or 3 live performances on the street and then it’s Morgan back in the studio, dressed in black against a black backdrop. He’s well mic’d and there are two torso camera and one close up for when you need to see the peek close up.

Is it well taught: Morgan gives you the basic moves and a few extra final thoughts.

Storage? Does it "pack flat?" All you need is a business card and a sharpie marker

Does it "play big?" Can be combined with any standard mind reading routine or any time you need to glance a piece of written information.

Difficulty / Skill level required: This is fairly simple with some practice.

How much arts and crafts are involved? You need to be able to fold a business card into fourths.

How practical is this in the real world? (can it really be done?) Yes, it can be done. It relies on a sort of “dodge” but should fly right by most.

Overall score: let's toss out the traditional score of 1-10 and make this something that we all can appreciate and understand.

_____ Very Satisfied
__X___ Somewhat Satisfied
_____ Neither Satisfied or Dissatisfied
_____ Somewhat Dissatisfied
_____ Very Dissatisfied
_____ No Opinion

My thoughts it’s ok. I’ve seen a few peeks and I’d say this is probably the easiest one I have seen and would be great for beginners and those just starting out. This is a perfect “first peek” to learn.

+ Hey do you want to see my full review with even more of my opinions and ideas? Visit this link for my video review: ​
Youtube & Intstagram @MagicOrthodoxy
FOLLOW and SUBSCRIBE - I giveaway magic and cards every month
George Hunter
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David:

I liked your review; clear, insightful, useful. And I recently bought the dvd, and the teaching was good, and I plan to be using the peek.

I read from several of you that Morgan had published "Bullet Peek" within a larger Turner pdf, and that this is essentially the same effect being taught.

I agree with Jeff that this might have been mentioned in the advertising, but I can also think of a reason why it shouldn't have, and a stronger reason for the name change; exposure avoidance. As a chapter in a larger work, it make sense to say its a "peek" method. But stand alone advertised products should, in their titles, avoid words like "peek" or "force."

I would wager that Strebler would have been criticized IF the dvd WAS advertised as "Bullet Peek." This could be a ***ed-if-you-do and ***ed-if-you-don't kind of marketing decision, so let's cut SansMinds some slack.

George
George Hunter
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Two further thoughts about David's review:

1. I do not see this as a beginners, entry-level, peek. It is not necessarily easier to execute than some of the center tears, and it requires an audacity not found in many beginners.

2. Let me also suggest that, as in fiction--many short stories are better than many novels, the worth of a product in mentalism is not especially experienced in terms of its length. This is most obvious in some of the ebooks in our field; many (say) 60 page ebooks feature too much semantic padding and more white space than you'd find in a snowstorm. Likewise, some instructional dvd's and downloads contain too much filler, and extraneous material, and they go on forever. Strebler's 13 minutes is some of the most cogent teaching in our field; may his tribe increase.

George
Dan Dent
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Strebler is now selling a PDF version of the Bullet peek through Pablo Amira for $9.95.

https://bulletmorganstrebler.blogspot.ch
Xiqual
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Just got this and it is exactly like ***********'s Oracle of the Phoenix. Also similar to Alain Bellon's Obsidian Oblique. These were released in about 2006.
Hmmmm..
James
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