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Terrible Wizard
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I use four different types of DL. All have a non-negligible failure rate for me. As do all my sleights and moves and flourishes, with only a few exceptions. As was mentioned before I think nerves and lack of a mentor are two key hindering factors for me. Dunno.
James F
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Just hold the deck in mechanics grip. Bevel the side of the deck to the right. The right hand comes in and with the pad of the right forefinger lift up on one card. Then keep moving the finger up and lift up the second card. Then put the thumb on top, press down, and press the cards together and turn over. Let the cards fall naturally on top, do not keep constant connection with the card. Do not hold a break of any kind. Repeat the actions to turn the card face down. Do this for an hour or so until you know what 2 cards feel like. Then instead of lifting up one then the other, just lift 2 together. Its just muscle memory. I just taught my friend this strike double in less than an hour a few nights ago. He can hit it 80% of the time. Then just take a week and work on it.

In my opinion that second 52 cards video is not a good double lift. No one turns cards over like that. But if you do, make sure EVERY single time you turn over a card, you do it like that. It must be consistent every single time.
James F
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I would be more than happy to make a video for you if you want some help. Just PM me.
Terrible Wizard
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I understand. I've done plenty of hours. Still not good enough. There's something else involved other than knowing the technique and practice, hence this thread Smile
James F
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Interesting. I guess some stuff just alludes us. Sorry for hijacking the thread. One last suggestion: work on the pinky count? Imo that's even harder than a DL but maybe it'll be easier for you?
R2D2
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Terrible Wizard: Are there a few easy card tricks you can perform? If so, is there some place you can volunteer, e.g. entertain little kids at the local hospital? If you do this every week for an hour or two, you'll get in a lot of practice, you're nerves will calm, and you'll be much more confident.

I know this doesn't solve your "I can do sleights X, Y, and Z" problem but I often think that calming your nerves is half the battle.

And then you really need to meet with (or Skype with) another magician. I'm not sure there's any substitute for that.
Terrible Wizard
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Good ideas. Certainly I need to find ways to reduce my nerves. I have, oddly, plenty of performance opportunities with my work and daily life - hundreds a day, lol Smile. Not that I take most of them, of course. But the nerves have never gone away even after I've done a fair few performances - one of the problems is that not every performance goes well, which doesn't exactly help! Smile

But there's no substitute for flight time, so I just have to make more of an effort.
R2D2
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Keep in mind that it's tough to perform for people you know. (I'm not sure if you're performing for coworkers or customers.) I'd rather perform for a bunch of strangers than family members.
Maestro
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Quote:
On May 26, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote:
I use four different types of DL. All have a non-negligible failure rate for me. As do all my sleights and moves and flourishes, with only a few exceptions. As was mentioned before I think nerves and lack of a mentor are two key hindering factors for me. Dunno.


You might want to try practicing just one, whichever you think you've either made the most progress on or the one that is the most simple.

Also I really don't think a double lift should flat out "fail" very often unless you are trying to do a really fancy double without a pinkie break or something. Does it fail as in the cards separate, or just that somebody suspects you are holding two cards as one?

If the cards are actually separating, it may be something with the technique. I use one I learned from Card College, in which your fingers are basically contacting the card from multiple edges. Using proper technique its almost impossible for the double to separate.

If its just that people are noticing it, it could be that your body language is giving it away or you are not using misdirection. A double lift is not something you want to just do while everyone is just staring at the deck. Usually I relax my body and deliver a patter line before I do the double, and then I start to turn over the double onto the deck before I look back down. So people know that I turned a card over, but they pretty much are only focusing on it when it is face down, and then face up. They see out of their peripheral vision that I turned the card over, but they shouldn't be just like staring at the deck the whole time.

I hope that makes sense and maybe helps a little bit.
danaruns
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On May 26, 2017, James F wrote:
Im sorry but I think those doubles look atrocious. In my humble opinion, this is what a DL should look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl0rM4qpxWo&t=14s

A close second would be a strike double lift. That is what I use. Its also MUCH easier to perform. Just make sure you turn over singles and doubles exactly the same. I think most people could master a strike double in less than a day.


A lot of people do that one. It's a fine DL. And when you see it, you know immediately that it's a DL. That was Eugene Burger's point. When you say, "This is what a DL should look like," I have to disagree. A DL shouldn't look like anything. Every 14-year old who has ever been within a mile of a card trick can recognize that DL, which is why Eugene hates the DL. And I agree. Your mileage may vary.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
NWJay
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Quote:
On May 26, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote:
I use four different types of DL. All have a non-negligible failure rate for me. As do all my sleights and moves and flourishes, with only a few exceptions. As was mentioned before I think nerves and lack of a mentor are two key hindering factors for me. Dunno.


One piece of advice that I heard that surprised me is that the alignment doesn't have to be *perfect* - as hard as it is to imagine sometimes, lay people just aren't looking out for it and as long as the alignment isn't horrendously poor you can away with a slight edge. My preferred non-strike method sometimes leaves a tiny lip sticking out of the bottom card on the inner side, that is the one nearest to me and while I'm aware of it (and always inwardly cursing it!) it's not even visible to someone looking straight on at you. We should always reach for perfection but if we don't always meet it it's not always terminal.

(That advice came from BBM's Double Lift Project by the way, which might be worth checking out - it's a bit pricey but extremely helpful about all kinds of DLs and well worth the investment I thought Smile ).
Terrible Wizard
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I admit, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and that might be some of the issue here - it might also explain why I often get quite nervy when performing for folks. I want everything to be perfect, I guess Smile. And yeah, BBMs stuff is all great Smile
Pop Haydn
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Alignment does have to be perfect, especially in bright light or sunlight. The turnover and the double lift are different moves.
orchid666
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I completely agree with zauberman earlier on. I have seen some online magicians give out some pretty harsh advice, but on the rare occasions you see a performance from one of them, its well below average. Some people may disagree, and of course proper technique is important, but when you are that immersed in the scene, its easy to forget about the bigger picture. Too much is emphasises is put on perfecting the methods, and too little on the actual performance. I recently saw someone perform the best *** gambling demo I've seen in 20/years. Was I thinking about the size of his brief while he was second dealing? No. In fact I didn't even realise he was second dealing. Do you watch to see how perfect Bill Malone's double turnover get ready is? I hope everyone here would be too busy enjoying the show. As for the routines themselves, I will freely admit to being a move junkie, and the more knucklebusting the better. And the strongest reaction I ever get is from a routine that's self working. After 20 years I'm just about happy with my pass, but that's just a personal thing. Most times in my set it really wouldn't matter if I openly cut the deck instead. I'd like to believe that anyone could learn magic to a decent level, or an instrument for that matter. You just gotta find a style that fits you, and jump head first into it.
Sid vicious couldn't play a note. Kx
Maestro
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On May 27, 2017, Pop Haydn wrote:
Alignment does have to be perfect, especially in bright light or sunlight. The turnover and the double lift are different moves.


I definitely agree with this. Will it always happen when you're just starting out? Maybe not, but I think it is not going to be deceptive if it isn't. I think that getting it perfect should be attainable for most people especially if you aren't trying to use an unnecessarily hard technique without a get ready or something. I'm not saying don't ever use a strike, but when you are starting out I wouldn't.
Terrible Wizard
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I agree the strike is much more knacky than a get-ready turnover.

But is it really so hard to get that after six or seven years of endless practise I still don't get a 100% perfect rate? And, again, it's not just the DL - it's many, perhaps every, sleight.

I think there's more going on here than just time and practise - talent, mentoring, nerves, perfectionism - there's more to getting good at moves then just endless repetition, I'm beginning to think. Smile. But working out exactly what it is, and exactly how to fix it - now that's a tricky one! It's a good job I'm a tenacious so and so ... Smile
danaruns
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I wonder if maybe you're just a little too much of a perfectionist? I can't think of any magician that gets through an entire show and thinks, "Everything about that show was perfect." That kind of thing is super rare, and marveled at when it occurs. Seems to me that perfection is an ideal, not a realistic goal for us fallible humans. Sleights get to a point where they are so good that you might be the only one who notices that they are not perfect, and that's where the masters are, but perfection eludes us all. Perfect isn't "in the cards," so to speak. Could it be that you're just being a little too hard on yourself?

Even the simplest move defies perfection. Anyone who says they have a perfect any kind of move, I'd have serious doubts about them. Either they are not being truthful, or they aren't self-aware enough to understand perfection. Because we humans don't do anything perfectly all the time.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
Terrible Wizard
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True Dana, true Smile
cfirwin3
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Quote:
On May 26, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote:
I use four different types of DL. All have a non-negligible failure rate for me. As do all my sleights and moves and flourishes, with only a few exceptions. As was mentioned before I think nerves and lack of a mentor are two key hindering factors for me. Dunno.


Have you thought to piece together some of the parts of your different DLs that work and come up with your own handling?
Perhaps one 'get ready' never fails (probably pushing off two and pulling back for a pinky break). And maybe one type of turn over never fails... like holding at the axis and turning?

Try to make the secure stuff work together. You can make the most elementary version work in a professional manner.
Terrible Wizard
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Interesting idea. No, I haven't considered that before. I'll mull it over Smile. Cheers Smile
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