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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Proteus by Phedon Bilek Official Review (333 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Colin (C.J.)
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Brilliant post MadisonH.
ash2arani
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While I enjoy Madison's ideas and thoughts, I disagree with what he proposed.

If it is better to fail that succeed, then why try to succeed? To justify a purchase or a system?! Or to buy into a hype.

If the impact is better if you fail, simply say "think of anything you drew as a kid" and then just guess. Maths guarantee that you will be missing an awful lot of times. And in the case you hit, no follow up effect is required.

I think we as buyers of products forget the bigger picture. We owe our audience the best impact and if failed Proteus is better than a successful Proteus, then Proteus is a very bad investment.

If we consider a follow up effect as an OUT when Proteus fails, then I agree it has merit. Otherwise, we are just feeding meaningless hype.
Yuan Moons
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He said it worked as a better lead in if he fails. That doesn’t mean he prefers to fail... at least that how I read madisons post.
ash2arani
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So why want it to succeed then? (In the context proposed by Madison)
ManchurianMan83
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2017, ash2arani wrote:
While I enjoy Madison's ideas and thoughts, I disagree with what he proposed.

If it is better to fail that succeed, then why try to succeed? To justify a purchase or a system?! Or to buy into a hype.

If the impact is better if you fail, simply say "think of anything you drew as a kid" and then just guess. Maths guarantee that you will be missing an awful lot of times. And in the case you hit, no follow up effect is required.

I think we as buyers of products forget the bigger picture. We owe our audience the best impact and if failed Proteus is better than a successful Proteus, then Proteus is a very bad investment.

If we consider a follow up effect as an OUT when Proteus fails, then I agree it has merit. Otherwise, we are just feeding meaningless hype.


You completely miss the point ash2arani!

Madison is NOT saying proteus is better if it fails, or to have a better trick lined up for when it fails.
He is suggesting that people should prepare to have a trick to follow on IF proteus SHOULD fail, therefore lessening the impact of FAILURE.

He makes a very good point.
If you remove the fear of failing something like this, then performers will relax and may actually find that by preparing for the worst, they achieve the best.

This is not about proteus not being as good as another trick, it's about giving performers confidence by having a no-fail scenario, because even failure would have an out.

If a performer has doubts or concerns about a trick, especially one that involves psychological forces or suggestions that may not land, those doubts could subconcously be hindering that performers ability to perform this to the best of its ability.
Give them confidence to relax knowing it can't fail (because even if it does, you have a follow up that COULD be stronger [but that's not the point]) and they may suddenly find proteus starts working for them better.
Yuan Moons
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If it fails he loses the effect but the lead in to the next bit works nicely. I think that’s all he meant.
ash2arani
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He says, " In a twisted way, you should almost hope it fails so you can show them the other effect."

He also says, "it's a better lead in if I fail than if I succeed!"

So I ask again, as a lead-in, is it better to succeed or fail? Impact-wise?

If success is better in that scenario, then great and the follow up effect is just another effect.

If failure makes the other effect more impactful, then Proteus is not adding anything here; it is actually taking away.
ash2arani
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Personally, I know how I want use Proteus and when to use it but I would never routine it so that its failure is preferred to its success, as a lead-in or not.
MadisonH
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Ash, ManchurianMan hit the head on the nail.

As I made abundantly clear, I will not be WISHING for a failure. But by not having to WISH for a hit, I remove all subconscious doubt which may be lingering.

I don't want Proteus to fail. I want it to be successful. By using its failure (should it ever fail) to lead into another effect, I never have to be worried about the "way if" of the routine. Because of this, there will be a calm and peace about the performance of the effect which the same effect would not have if someone were thinking the whole time "God I hope this works."

Of course, I don't WANT it to fail. I'm saying you should have a path in case it does fail. And that path should be every bit as powerful as when Proteus hits.

Based on your comments Ash, I assume you don't have Michael Murray's bonus. I highly suggest picking it up. You'll see where my thinking comes from. I'm being a bit cryptic to keep Michael's script and method well preserved.

Madison
Colin (C.J.)
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MadisonH, you are a very smart thinker. Your ideas remind me of how Peter Turner would approach things. Very progressive. Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.
ManchurianMan83
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2017, MadisonH wrote:
By using its failure (should it ever fail) to lead into another effect, I never have to be worried about the "way if" of the routine. Because of this, there will be a calm and peace about the performance of the effect which the same effect would not have if someone were thinking the whole time "God I hope this works.


This is so true!

With effects like this, where it relies on a spectator thinking in a particular fashion (applying equally to forces and suggestions), there is a lot of pressure on the performer.
"Please work" - there's a sense of anxiety as you silently pray they thought the way you hoped and that your force/suggestion/instruction worked.
That anxiety can actually be partly responsible for many misses.
Not saying it's wholly responsible, but it could be part of it. Our body language and mental state can affect things.
Also, due to that anxiety/excitement of hoping it works, what follows in event of failure is the huge letdown and guttedness that 'it doesn't bloody work!'.

By reducing that anxiety, and in essence not caring which way the effect goes (success/failure), results might suddenly improve due to a performers improved and BALANCED approach that comes from not being that fussed about success.

It's food for thought to all users of methods like this.
Max Hazy
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After reading that this can be adapted to portuguese (page 5) I'll wait to get it from mind fx (the bonus there got me interested).

I think most people here who complains are confused about the method being 100% fail safe and the performer being able to actually make the effect get this condition. I think the "zero in" is 100% surefire and this makes some buyers have the illusion that the effect itself is 100% surefire. There's a difference as the second mention requires work on the part of the performer. In other words, people expect to do this miracle in a self-working way, like just because it is surefire, it will work. From what I gather... it IS 100% surefire but YOU have to make it surefire. Even effects logic-based will fail with a bad script. Even an imp pad, which is surefire... could fail. I cannot comment further because I don't have this yet, but I do think there's something here that could add a lot to what I do.

Cheers

Max
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
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Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Gordon Astley
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Somebody earlier said what if "TRAIN" was their choice. If this worries you, put it into the script...." Now if you were thinking of a TRAIN ......"...they go "SH*T .. that's exactly what I was thinking of !! " er....stop there folks and start a religion. I have had the book for 24 hours and already it is inspiring me. It's great braintraining as well. The few who can't see this, have them up for sale on Magic Week already at around £30. UK magicians grab a bargain !
Gordon Astley
KiKi
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If you feel unconfident if it works or not, just use PROTEUS as a warm up for a real drawing dupe you do with your spectator,
or you do the real DD as an out. There are a lot ways to use PROTEUS as a side effect, that it not really matters if it fails or not.
Rolyan
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To those thinking of purchasing this....

If you are currently worried about misses in your performance, and you are not willing or able (or have any desire) to put in the time and study to overcome this, then Proteus is probably not for you. But then neither is a lot of the work by Turner, Murray, Taylor, Parker et al. No big deal. It's not for you, but there are lots of other effects and methods that are. So buy them instead.

However, if you like propless and are happy with your ability to handle an occasional miss, or your happy (or have a desire) to learn that ability, then Proteus probably is something you would enjoy. You should appreciate that nothing worthwhile comes easy; most will not be able to pick up the book today and perform it tomorrow. Madison is an exception, for most there is a little work involved. Nothing major, but it's there. So buy it, learn it, try it, develop your knowledge and your performance.

I'm really surprised at some of the comments on here, but think it's partly to do with how accessible magic and mentalism is nowadays. Back in the days it was far more secretive, you worked at the craft, explored different options and styles, studied everything you could get hold of and learned from your mistakes. Nowadays there seems to be this desire for instant gratifIcation with 100% self working easy to achieve miracles, and no one seems able to accept that occasionally you buy something that is not for you. I can't begin to count the books I've owned and read, the dvds I've watched, the effects I've purchased. Have I used them all; no. Have I liked them all; no. But have I learned something from almost every single one; definitely.

If Proteus is for you then go for it. But if not, just accept that and move on.
Mb217
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Man, I find myself in some crazy places at times, and this one is truly an interesting one... 🤔

Mentalism is something that has always caught my mind's eye and I truly enjoy it. I like to keep things simple, and being a very long way from home with this, I have found a very interesting place to rest with Proteus.

First, it is just an amazing piece of work. I am still studying it, but the concept is so clear and inviting that it didn't scare me off as many of these mentalism effects do. Phedon has most perfectly hit upon my mantra nowadays, "Less is More." He has found a clear and concise way to deliver a miracle of an effect. I will keep working on this because I can see it is something well worth thinking about and bringing alive in my own work.

Another thing worth mentioning here is that I am mostly a coin guy (I know, I know, "A COIN GUY" what does he know? -Well, you'd be surprised!), Smile and that's where I first came across Phedon long ago now. He was quite interested in coin magic then, and we developed a real friendship there. He soared with coin magic, and so to see him now an accomplished and respected mentalist, is just further proof to me that indeed he is yet another "diamond in the rough" I was blessed to come upon on my journey (Eric Jones was another one). Smile

As I said, I'm still going through this but so far, it is absolutely AMAZING. I've actually given it a preliminary whirl and it indeed works as presented and explained. Incidentally, it is good, clear reading and Phedon covers every aspect of how it's done, over & over again until you get it. Smile After a while, it will become simpler and simpler to you as it is becoming for me (and that ain't always easy), Smile and with all the nuances he goes over to help polish the presentation for you, you come to see that indeed it is a real gem, and then some...perhaps even more than that.

There are certain things you should carry on your person at all times (even coin/ close-up men like me), like good character, a good word for people, a willingness to help others, and in some way the ability to touch & leave people in a way that brings about sheer wonderment....Proteus is all you need for the latter.

I beyond "highly recommend" this (even if you're not a mentalist, actually, especially if you're not.), as I do all the very few things I've come across that are of a truly unique perfection. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
*Check out my latest: The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
252life
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Great post MB. Agreed.

Phedon, maybe add TROLL to sequence.
That way you will be 100% accurate, when performing for some people here on the Café Smile

Any (good) propless relies on experience performing in general.
There is a difference between doing this "type" of effect on your wife, or at a paid event.

Anyway, just waking up, forgive me.

I find it funny that approaches that claim to be "90% effective" (like Parker) have teams of fan boys.
..90% of which I'd bet never really mud tested it, but love to argue.

Maybe any propless at all, should be advertised as 99% effective, and not for dabblers lol


End of rant.
Start of coffee.

Then I'll start on the expanded version.


252"Do it Phedon!"
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
252life
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Ps

I would love to see other clips of people performing this if poss.
I saw some were linked, but wern't showing up for me (?)
Any links would be appreciated. (Madison, buddy Smile...?)

Thx much.

252AbReaction
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

-Theodore Annemann
MadisonH
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It's here, bud!

Colin (C.J.)
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Wow, wow and wow again. That was just awesome!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Proteus by Phedon Bilek Official Review (333 Likes)
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