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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Proteus by Phedon Bilek Official Review (333 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The_March_Hare
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On Jul 21, 2017, phedonbilek wrote:
There is nothing to back up I'm afraid Rolyan. Reza has an agenda. I stopped writing because he's gonna quote each sentence and analyze every single word's etymology.

I guess some people need, love confrontation. I don't. Be well Reza.

Phedon


I am going to quote you because you are too immature to have a discussion about ideas rather than personally invoke people's integrity and I'm not going to pretend like it's all good. If I did have an agenda, you have not provided a shred of evidence for that claim. I mean it's pretty sad when you have claim that eveyrone who doesn't like your product somehow has a hidden agenda, or isn't a real mentalist. I don't love confrontation but I'm not afraid of it either.
phedonbilek
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Ok Reza. Point taken. I don't care about all this actually. I get you don't like it. I'm surprised with what Michael Murray told you as Proteus is his new go-to effect. Unless he's lying in my face. But... enough of this. Really.

Peace? 🙃 Like... agree to disagree? Something like that? 🙂
...The only easy day is yesterday...
MadisonH
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The March Hare,

I can tell you for a fact Michael Murray has memorized it and is using it. I believe he is just using the basic one or the extended one. I'm not sure where you found your claim, but if so, maybe he meant he hasn't memorized his own 40-out variant (and I don't blame him because I'm using the one exactly as written in the book with much success.)

Madison
Mb217
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It is remarkable how this happens time and time again, how these folks sneak in under other pretenses, and then begin blowing-up the place in attempt to destroy something good that they take exception with, most times just because. I guess this is how wolves keep stepping in the same traps set to take them down...Simply, traps work!

I've said this for years now, and I take time to say the same thing now, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

If you engage these folks they will spin you around and away from what's good about the string. Their goal is to slash and burn, it's just what they like doing, like an arsonist. They don't just like setting fires, they get off on watching them burn, engaging the chaos. It can be hard resisting their initially innocent approaches at times, but if you don't they will then claw you to death and burn the house down bouncing the string around like a pin ball machine. You know who these posters are, they usually attack with or within having just a few posts. They are the email you should not open and the link you should not click. It has been proven here yet again who these folks are, their M.O. is quite consistent. So, resist and avoid them at all costs. If you must, simply report them to the Café as to the disruptive twits they are and they will be dealt with accordingly.

So, again, Please... DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
*Check out my latest: The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
tomd
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Reza,

I appreciate your review.

Just don't see the point in making claims about how others (unknown to us) feel about the effect, if when asked to clarify you won't. If you don't want to "expose" who, don't mention it. It doesn't help anyone, and brings into question the authenticity of the claim in the first place.

But other then that, your review was food for thought.. I now have the book, and will read tomorrow, test, and review on here.
The_March_Hare
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, phedonbilek wrote:
Ok Reza. Point taken. I don't care about all this actually. I get you don't like it. I'm surprised with what Michael Murray told you as Proteus is his new go-to effect. Unless he's lying in my face. But... enough of this. Really.

Peace? 🙃 Like... agree to disagree? Something like that? 🙂


I didn't say that he said it to me personally, I said in the ebook he admitted that he is still working on getting the system down.
The_March_Hare
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On Jul 21, 2017, MadisonH wrote:
The March Hare,

I can tell you for a fact Michael Murray has memorized it and is using it. I believe he is just using the basic one or the extended one. I'm not sure where you found your claim, but if so, maybe he meant he hasn't memorized his own 40-out variant (and I don't blame him because I'm using the one exactly as written in the book with much success.)

Madison


He said this at the beginning of his ebook:

"WORD OF CAUTION:
I have only been playing with this routine for a few weeks now, the thoughts contained within this booklet are simply my initial thoughts on this subject and should be treated as such.
I am by no means an expert on this routine and as such, I may develop these thoughts further. If this happens I will report back to you with my updated findings!"

It doesn't exactly sound like he is proficient in it and has tested it out a bunch of times before giving his endorsement does it?
The_March_Hare
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, tomd wrote:
Reza,

I appreciate your review.

Just don't see the point in making claims about how others (unknown to us) feel about the effect, if when asked to clarify you won't. If you don't want to "expose" who, don't mention it. It doesn't help anyone, and brings into question the authenticity of the claim in the first place.

But other then that, your review was food for thought.. I now have the book, and will read tomorrow, test, and review on here.


Please do read it, memorize it, test it out over the phone for people, whatever you think necessary and review on here.
MadisonH
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On Jul 21, 2017, The_March_Hare:

He said this at the beginning of his ebook:

"WORD OF CAUTION:
I have only been playing with this routine for a few weeks now, the thoughts contained within this booklet are simply my initial thoughts on this subject and should be treated as such.
I am by no means an expert on this routine and as such, I may develop these thoughts further. If this happens I will report back to you with my updated findings!"

It doesn't exactly sound like he is proficient in it and has tested it out a bunch of times before giving his endorsement does it?



This proves you're simply a troll.

Michael is clearly saying he isn't finished with this and is still thinking and working on it.

Madison
The_March_Hare
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And one last thing: All of this "he's a troll" nonsense is rubbish. I have reviewed: Michael Murray's Between the Lines, Springboard, and later Between the Lines. I have reviewed Robert Watkins Jhana & Positive Negative, Peter Turner's Penguin Lectures (1&2), Isabella's Star, The Portugal Notes, Freeform Mentalism, a bunch of his masterclass volumes, nearly all of Fraser Parker's books and DVDs, Jerome Finley's Material, Ben Blau's Asymptotes, Pablo Amira's Isolated, a bunch of Kenton Knepper's books from Kolossal Killer to KENT, it's suggestion, etc. all of Sean Water's ebooks and I have never given a single bad review. This is the first time that I have ever written a mostly negative review.

I thought that I was more than polite and respectful but I am not going to just be quiet because an oversensetive creator cannot take the criticism and invokes me and my character rather than discuss the points that I raised. Like I said 100 times, I don't care if people disagree with my opinion - that was never the issue.
phedonbilek
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I offered peace. You didn't even mention it. Completely ignored it in fact.

Thank you for making my point, "Reza" (loved the subtle way you introduced your "name". It would fool my niece). 20 posts mostly on this thread. And still: we fell for it 🤓

Whoever you are, you proved Marion's right as well. We all fed you. I won't anymore. Troll on... "Reza".

Phedon
...The only easy day is yesterday...
The_March_Hare
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, MadisonH wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, The_March_Hare:

He said this at the beginning of his ebook:

"WORD OF CAUTION:
I have only been playing with this routine for a few weeks now, the thoughts contained within this booklet are simply my initial thoughts on this subject and should be treated as such.
I am by no means an expert on this routine and as such, I may develop these thoughts further. If this happens I will report back to you with my updated findings!"

It doesn't exactly sound like he is proficient in it and has tested it out a bunch of times before giving his endorsement does it?



This proves you're simply a troll.

Michael is clearly saying he isn't finished with this and is still thinking and working on it.

Madison


Do you honestly think that when he gave his endorsement, he had performed it in public a bunch of times and knew about how well it would hit or was he giving his opinion of the principles in the effect itself and how well he thought that it would work? And no this does not make someone a troll. Instead of simply labeling people things, why don't you engage their arguments?
The_March_Hare
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On Jul 21, 2017, phedonbilek wrote:
I offered peace. You didn't even mention it. Completely ignored it in fact.

Thank you for making my point, "Reza" (loved the subtle way you introduced your "name". It would fool my niece). 20 posts mostly on this thread. And still: we fell for it 🤓

Whoever you are, you proved Marion's right as well. We all fed you. I won't anymore. Troll on... "Reza".

Phedon


How about you try to not attack people who don't like your product, and instead attack their ideas. It is difficult to take your offer of peace seriously when you have already fired shots.
MadisonH
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, The_March_Hare wrote:
Do you honestly think that when he gave his endorsement, he had performed it in public a bunch of times and knew about how well it would hit or was he giving his opinion of the principles in the effect itself and how well he thought that it would work? And no this does not make someone a troll. Instead of simply labeling people things, why don't you engage their arguments?



Yes. If you'd like to discuss further, please PM me so we don't dirty up the thread. Smile

You're free to share you're review, it's highly encouraged! I knew everyone wouldn't like this the moment I read it. It takes a certain performance style and a boldness which not all performers have. I highly respect your review and opinions of this trick. What I don't respect is the character bashing you've done. Again, feel free to pm me if you'd like to chat further.

Have a great day!
Madison
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I think I was pretty clear with my introduction to the book and apologies for any possible miss-understanding.

Phedon has worked this effect for years, and I had only worked it for a month or so prior to writing my bonus (which, let's not forget was a free supliment in its original form and was only released at a nominal fee due to demand). I would have been lying to everyone if I had claimed to be as proficient as Pheodon in such a space of time hence my reason for openly claiming that I am no expert with it!

That said I did test it extensively during this period in its original form over a bare minimum of 100 performances. I then began relaxing the script to see what responses I would get as a result (field testing further).

As mentioned within my bonus I have been working extensively on another of my own projects which has some similarities to this. I knew my scripting could be adapted to this and thought people would find it as beneficial as I do.

To add to this I expanded the list to cover everything I encountered with a VERY relaxed script in an effort to give people confidence with this.

Having tightened my script I very rarely have to rely on my expanded set (but a there are a few regulars that crop up for me time and time again so I am refining it as I go as Phedon suggests.

I never have any worries about performing any propless piece as I am confident enough to handle any situation BUT others aren't as such my bonus provides several safety nets for them.

I say again that I personally love this and have no bad feelings towards anyone who doesn't. The this effect will continue to grow with me the more that I perform it. I am never content with any effect until I have truly made it my own that said Phoedon has done a fantastic job for me so far!

Best Wishes to All!

Michael
As a mentalist you must always ask yourself what if! And throughout your life you should seek to ask and answer this question over and over again, only then will your wildest dreams become a reality!

Visit - www.mindfx.co.uk to learn more!
Max Hazy
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Enough information here to make an informed decision. I just purchased it from penguin. Let's see how it goes in portuguese.

Cheers
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman

"Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward"
Jan Forster


Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/

Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/
Rolyan
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, The_March_Hare wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, Rolyan wrote:
Reza (The March Hare) - can you please clarify something.

You have written that most of the 'big' names out there that are endorsing it have said that they have not spent much time performing it and they have said that they couldn't without staring at the book. That is a huge claim to make, and I haven't seen it anywhere, so can you back it up. Who are these big names you refer to and where have they said the things you say they've said. Without you providing that evidence, then many will question your motives.

As this thread has now been hi-jacked, I would advise anyone considering this as a purchase to contact the author direct, or any of the other Café members who say it works for them, and ask relevant questions in private. That will stop more public revelations and help them make their own mind up.


Read Michael Murray's PDF, he says himself that he is still working on it and is not at that point of feeling comfortable to perform it live. The other people I am not going to expose because that is not my intention. I only mention Michael Murray because he did not hide this fact and there is no harm in saying so. However the point of what I said was not to expose anyone for endorsing a product that they have not quite tested out that much. There are others who are my personal friends that endorsed the book and gave me their opinion without having actually put it to much use and again we can have a difference of opinion.

People can question my motives but what motives would I have? I have no competing product on the market, I am not pushing another product by a friend of mine that would compete with this so what motive do you think that I would have? I'm sorry but not everyone who writes a negative review has some secret hidden motive. I gave specific reasons why I didn't like the product and you can take it for what it is.

Furthermore, by saying "contact the creator and ask him", he has a direct motive to push his product. You cannot one minute say "I think that you Reza, with no connection to the creator have an alternative motive because you wrote a negative review" and then on the other side of your mouth talk about how people should take the creator at face value for what he says. I brought up many problems with his own advertising, such as claiming that it is 100% and then the next minute saying that it is only 90%. He admitted in his responses to me that his advertising was not honest when it said that it was easy and could be learned rather quickly.

In the book itself he says that he wrote it on one night and immediately tried it out on his wife and with people over the phone. Yet somehow when other people try it out under this same scenario, they haven't put the proper practice into it and are not honest. I actually spent more time learning this than I ever did with COG and yet COG immediately allowed for hits. COG was also minimal in procedure and felt more like mind reading. If this offends you, then that is not my problem because I stuck to the topic and gave an honest opinion. You don't agree with my opinion, fine but by diverting the conversation to me having an alternative motive, that is silly.

I literally said that I am a huge fan of most of the people who endorsed it. However we need to be able to scrutinize ideas and give our honest opinions. If every time someone gives their opinion about the product you attack the person and their character, you are only hindering an honest and open dialogue about whether or not this product is good or not. Like I said, if you like it and are getting tons of hits from it then fantastic. If you read the threads that pertain to COG, tons of people said that they absolutely hated it and couldn't get it to hit. I wasn't offended because it allowed me to buy more than one copy of it and be one of the only people consistently performing it. If this is a great product, the best mind reading tool ever invented, you should be happy that I will not be using it and don't like it. Instead you get all defensive about it and feel the need to defend it.

As I suspected, you cannot back up your claim. The reason; because it's untrue.

You've every right to not like a product, but to make false claims shows that you do indeed have an agenda. No one minds you not liking it, but many will disapprove of you lying in order to bolster your argument. Thankfully most will be able to see through you.
Rolyan
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On Jul 21, 2017, Max Hazy wrote:
Enough information here to make an informed decision. I just purchased it from penguin. Let's see how it goes in portuguese.

Cheers

When you've had chance to read and study it, you can join the private Face Book group for owners. You'll be able to discuss it with all those who are performing it successfully, and discuss it with the actual person, not the made up people the trolls on here are quoting.

There are several that have extended it in their own language, so your contributions will be welcomed. Most of all, you'll be encouraged by those who are performing it day in, day out, to real people, in the real world.

Enjoy.
Rolyan
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Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, MadisonH wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2017, The_March_Hare wrote:
Do you honestly think that when he gave his endorsement, he had performed it in public a bunch of times and knew about how well it would hit or was he giving his opinion of the principles in the effect itself and how well he thought that it would work? And no this does not make someone a troll. Instead of simply labeling people things, why don't you engage their arguments?



Yes. If you'd like to discuss further, please PM me so we don't dirty up the thread. Smile

You're free to share you're review, it's highly encouraged! I knew everyone wouldn't like this the moment I read it. It takes a certain performance style and a boldness which not all performers have. I highly respect your review and opinions of this trick. What I don't respect is the character bashing you've done. Again, feel free to pm me if you'd like to chat further.

Have a great day!
Madison

It's the standard troll technique. Mix in rationale and valid points with character bashing, lies, misrepresentations and offensive comments. They always do it, as it allows them to hide behind a facade of good intentions. They always do it, without fail; it's the classic way to recognise them.

Many thanks for your excellent work on this Madison. Anyone who is still unsure should watch your videos, hit after hit, using the basic method, on real people.
PWRIS
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I ordered Proteus last week and as yet I have only received the PDF extended version. After reading through all 28 pages here it would appear that some people have a fear of not getting right the first time. May I suggest having something like "Visions" as a safety net. As there are 26 as opposed to 17 outs, this may help people to get more comfortable with the basic system.
Paul W. Randall
"Englishman in Germany"
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