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jbadman Special user London 984 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, swood wrote: Yet there are subtleties being held back and only shared with people who placed a pre-order. So for them it's the 'whole thing' but not for anyone else. I'm new to this thread so hadn't realised this had already been discussed (assuming it has from the previous two replies) but my personal view is that yet, it alienates me. I don't want to receive a lesser product because I only just found out about its existence. Why not simply send out an addendum to ALL buyers with these additional handlings and/or subtleties? Treat your entire customer base with complete respect, not just the early adopters. I can fully support the idea of early adopters getting a 'bonus effect' but what I don't like are elements from the main product being held back to help drive early sales too. Jamie
http://www.underground-collective.com - check out our new DVD now!
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Early birds getting a discount is fine
As I suggested before to PT But yeah of course this situation now alienates anyone late to the party The reality is PT will probably give you all the extras anyway but that shows up the hype BS for what it was But that's the only fair thing to do Why should you get a lesser project What I don't get is why should the early birds want to keep all the extras exclusively to themselves It was a stupid decision and one other companies have learned from It's not like he hasn't been given this information before it was too late I guess like STEM it's all about the short term hype Again I stress I am an early bird so I have no vested interest other than offering PT sensible advice on how not to damage his brand I think the only way to get the full package now is to wait a few weeks and buy a pirate version Sad and annoying that this will drive ppl to buying illegal copies that doesn't reward the genius who came up with the product Short term gain, long term damage |
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GeraintClarke Special user 652 Posts |
Pete did this to me over the phone. INSANE.
Incredible effect and one that's definitely worth the work you put into it. - G |
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swood Loyal user 299 Posts |
I think it would be sensible to reread the previous response from Pete about this to understand the context. I understand your concern that things might be 'held back' from the original release. All I can say is that I have been as close to this project as anyone from the beginning. I told Pete that I wouldn't put my name to it unless it was the best it could be and after an awful lot of work it is. It is complete and if the strategy was to 'hold things back' then I'd know. I don't know exactly which bits Pete will be offering to those who pre-ordered or indeed whether it will be a completely different effect or effects, but I can say that the possibilities that IS3 opens up means that new subtleties could literally be added ad infinitum and in one sense it will never be complete. As I said, I've already refined some parts further and I've shared those with some people I know. Had I thought of them beforehand then after discussion with Pete they may have made it into the book, but I don't feel obliged to tell everyone every thought I've had on this routine. Having said that I am always happy to discuss it with people, time permitting. Of course it's Pete's not mine, and some people quite rightly won't want to know about my ideas, but I'm just using my own thoughts to illustrate the point. A line was drawn when we felt it was complete, because otherwise it would never have been released! And as Pete pointed out earlier in the thread, nobody complained when Derren Brown removed Lift and Reminiscence from later editions of Pure Effect, when they weren't even 'extras' but were regarded by many as the strongest routines. There's a difference between holding things back and offering extra. You are free to disagree and I respect your view, but there is no conspiracy here to hold things back from the main release.
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Peter Turner: " (Pre-orders will receive a bonus routine and subtleties not available in the commercial release). "
So you miss out on a routine And subtleties Depending on how good they are that leaves you with that percentage of a lesser product I would hazzard to say - that £30 for the 'lesser' product [if you are into star sign effects] will still be money well spent As this is an area PT has been obsessed with over the years - it should be very well covered in the bog standard 'lesser' / commercial release and [with the proviso it's the right fit for your act - sign/mentalism/propless/etc] there for a good buy I don't have this yet I just presume it will be very good [both because of PT interest and work in this area and as it's something I am interested in] |
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Oh and if you are like me and hate [don't buy] pdf's
This is a real book... so add that into the mix of whether it's worth the money even without the extras [PS I am sure it is all just hype to sell the books - if you buy the book afterwards, just contact PT and I am sure he will send you the extras - and I can't see why any of us who 'early birded' it would object/mind] |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Jebus...
can we get over the extras bit soon please? its for those that pre-order, its an incentive or a thank you for pre-ordering, an early bird special of sorts... no one has said anything remotely close to something vital being left out or being in some way incomplete...apart from The Duster, who is kinda insinuating it...I think he is wrong to do so...and I think he's misrepresenting a BONUS as something else...Pete is giving something EXTRA away to those that pre-ordered...he is not withholding basic information or something needed for IS3 to work...massive difference... I pre-ordered...
I've asked to be banned
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swood Loyal user 299 Posts |
Well said Iain. Glad that someone gets it! Inflammatory phraseology like 'bog standard lesser' and implying it's all a BS hype strategy just shows that nothing will convince some people. This was nothing but a well intentioned thanks for those early adopters and those who buy it now will get a great product. I came on to give an update out of courtesy to those waiting but I've now walked into another load of nonsense about the pre-sale, so I'm now going to leave this.
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, swood wrote: It is not nonsense But bless you I have experience in how bad these 'thank you / extras' that are exclusives are As I said you have made this project [in the future] far more likely to be pirated And you have created a short term hype promotion that damages PT brand Cool You didn't listen before I bought this as an early bird - and I tried to 'help' Keep your hands in your ears and sing 'lalalal' And of the 700 STEM limited editions [that you have to buy soon or they will be gone forever] how many are left and currently selling for almost 75% less [?] Not to be rude But PT is held in high esteem He should be better than having his people create hype balls like this A simple - buy it on presale and you get x discount - is perfect |
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Peter_turner V.I.P. Bradford, West Yorkshire 1355 Posts |
Hey Jamie,
If you're interested in the product (a book) don't think for a second that there isn't enough to do the routine using what's shared in the book and still have LOTS left over to play with and create around. The videos were a bonus to those that ordered early and affect NOTHING inside in terms of the content of the book - You will still be able to perform the routine flawlessly. If the fact that I gave an insentive to people who trusted in the product to order early totally puts you off, I don't want to argue to change your mind as it was a decision I made and I'm sticking to. This might leave a sour taste in some people's mouths but there has been a quarter of a year to pre order (almost) I even re-opened pre-orders to make sure everyone got an opportunity. - I cannot and will not tell all those people that I'm sorry but the incentive/ reason they bought early will now be available to everyone. UNLESS of course PEOPLE WHO ORFERED EARLY do not have problem with that. Be vocal let me know - I leahebit in their hands. When a private group gets created later there will be more than enough ideas for you to delve through on there and there will still be some video content in the book available. This is a book not a DVD or video project - let's not forget that. I'm not here to argue about woulda/ coulda/ shoulda - the long and short is simple the price point on bringing this project to print/ post was a healthy sum upfront and I wanted to ensure this came to fruition - with the best print, layout, edit, design and postage options available and I can say happily it has. I'm looking forward to seeing your renditions of this and I would like to jam (personally) with anyone who has any thoughts additional ideas on this subject - For now, we are going through some family things (nothing bad) right now and I won't be coming back here for a few days. Pete x |
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Peter_turner V.I.P. Bradford, West Yorkshire 1355 Posts |
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On Sep 19, 2017, The Duster wrote: This is not the Stem System thread - keep it relevant. Pete x |
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, Peter_turner wrote: I do not have a problem with that |
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swood Loyal user 299 Posts |
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice. Bless you too, Duster, but I will stick with facts instead of unsupported speculation over motivation. I can't see any merit in prolonging this, but I respect your right to hold whatever view you choose.
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simplymagicweb Inner circle Norfolk, UK 1410 Posts |
Any news on when it'll be sent out yet?
Magically,
Website - www.simplymagic.co.uk Twitter - www.twitter.com/simplymagic19 Facebook - www.facebook.com/SeanGoodmanMagician Creator of BDZ, Holidayz, The Grayle, DUO, Secret Servante, Genetics, Vision, Tick Tock, Starstruck, CelebriDate, MagiDate, Focus, SIGMA and R2R |
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swood Loyal user 299 Posts |
I believe everything is on track for them be sent out this week. We should also have some for sale at the UK LADS convention this Sunday.
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King14 Loyal user 268 Posts |
If you Pay your money you are entitled to the complete product with all extras and info. A pre-order should have a discount on price not more content.
This is bad sales practice and should not be used in business. If you pre-order a new car you get a price discount. If you buy the car on release the car comes the same and no wheels are missing just because you did not pre-order. All magic is now this pre-order thing going on. Release the product when it is ready for market and stop taking people's money 2 months before hand. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
It's not bad business practice at all.
You see it with albums (get exclusive tracks or bonus live tracks etc) You see it with games (get free dlc stuff like weapons, outfits etc) To say otherwise is a lie. And IS part of the pre-order side of things.
I've asked to be banned
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
Jesus king14! iwant, I deserve, I should have... The Sense of greedy entitlement you have is embarrassing. Just read back what you’re saying!!!
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, IAIN wrote: Yes it is very bad business Companies have learned how much it damages their brand You get the short term extra sales but then lose more than that afterwards and damage the good feelings ppl had for your brand Hence the shift away from exclusives Companies now do extra content but explicitly state that ppl will be able to buy these 'extras' as add ons after the release Otherwise ppl who missed the early bird deals feel disenfranchised as they can never obtain the full product But I told PT this before and gave various links It would be so much better to learn from others (bigger companies/ppl) who have gone down this route and have know it is bad business Rather than to 'open eyed' continue into to woods with the wolf of 'bad decisions for your buisness' |
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, Yuan Moons wrote: Surely the 'greedy entitled' ones Are those that want the extra content to NOT be given to future purchasers ? As they neither care for future customers or PT brand and reputation Those are the ones who want to hoard their extra special super secret add ons Why shouldn't everyone get the full package It's stupid any other way Both not fair and doesn't effect us (who did preorder) |
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