The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Joe Crist (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16264 Posts

Profile of tommy
It is hard to tell when we don’t know what the other fellow said but I will bet they are both wrong. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
65 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Steve is not a card cheat, he’s nothing but a move junkie.

The Gamblingman007
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
279 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
I have found that various insecure pundits have long attempted to make a name for themselves by somehow disparaging Forte.
I find that, in their efforts to inflate their own egos, they wind up only making themselves look foolish.

What I find commendable is that Forte himself never responds, he remains above it all, he never wades into these kinds of discussions in an effort to bolster his own standing or ego.

I suspect Forte avoids these kinds of exchanges simply because he knows what he's done, he knows what he's doing, and he knows exactly how many presumed card experts there are occupying the ground above him ... which (as we all know) would be close to zero, if not indeed zero.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16264 Posts

Profile of tommy
"Steve is not a card cheat, he’s nothing but a move junkie."

That is so superficial, it’s embarrassing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2478 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
"Steve (Forte) is not a card cheat, he's nothing but a move junkie."

Well, I would say Forte is not a card cheat because he has no desire to be a card cheat...nor would most decent people want to be one. It is not among the highest levels of human aspirations.

He may be a move junkie, but at the most accomplished levels of move "junkyism." ("Junkyism." Is that a real word?)

He evidently is fascinated by clever and well executed card and dice table manipulation in all its permutations (as many of us are) but has taken it to a level that few, if any, can duplicate. He is among the finest sleight of hand card table manipulators I have ever see, if not the finest and has an encyclopedic knowledge of card and dice cheating and casino game protection that doubtfully can be surpassed by anyone.

(Having that knowledge ability has nothing do with wanting to be, or being, a card cheat.)
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
65 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Move junkie or not if you watch Steve and can learn a move that can make you some money than please do so. To me it doesn’t matter if he did do it or not, if he did do it he was one of the best that did it, if he didn’t he sure would’ve been the best at doing it. In either case it really doesn’t matter to me, he was my best teacher until this day. Thank you Steve.

The Gamblingman007
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16264 Posts

Profile of tommy
Yes, but it is not about moves. There are advantage players and traditional hustling can be most profitable. When a full-time professional lures a part-time amateur to a private game to gamble with him, it is both a con and a form of match-fixing. The part-time player is no match for the full time professional. Private high stakes games are normally built around a wealthy businessman lured by a professional from a casino game.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2478 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
On Jan 25, 2019, tommy wrote:
Yes, but it is not about moves. There are advantage players and traditional hustling can be most profitable.


Yes, it certainly can be...and is!
popcalinda
View Profile
Veteran user
342 Posts

Profile of popcalinda
That joke Joe, he never played real games, never cheated. He was a student of W Scott, so what? I don't think so. Scott is advertised by magicians. Cheated games for 65 years, yea sure...Most of Joe stories are fake. Soon after Doc posted on Joe's Instagram monodrama, Joe blocked him...That's how good is he...mentally ill person. When we are talking about moves, naturalness, speed and smooth action, Steve and Z are the best out there.
Mr. Bones
View Profile
Loyal user
279 Posts

Profile of Mr. Bones
Quote:
On Jan 25, 2019, popcalinda wrote:
.......Steve and Z are the best out there.



Smile ... quite true - and not just with cards! Smile
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
65 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Mr. Popcalinda and Bones I totally agree with you.

TheGamblingman007
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16264 Posts

Profile of tommy
Z, as I recall, was the only one here that ever demonstrated anything that conformed to the usual procedures of the professional game.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Cagliostro
View Profile
Inner circle
2478 Posts

Profile of Cagliostro
Quote:
...Because no one starts off anything or subject by being an expert, it normally takes years of practicing, playing and being in different situations to become an expert at what you do...

...You call Walter Scott an expert...but at this stage in my gambling career he's not. Am I correct for making this statement; technically yes because of my expertise but technically no because his moves still can get the money (but at a slower rate)...


Yes, becoming an expert takes a long time. Actually, there are different categories of experts as well as levels of expertise. In a certain sense, "becoming an expert" is more a journey rather than a destination. And it is not only sleight of hand manipulation that makes one an expert in card and dice chicanery. There is considerably more to it than that. There are top experts who use clever playing ploys, advantage play techniques, subterfuge and gaffs to get the money and rarely if ever use sleight of hand although they usually know all the manipulative moves. As I mentioned before, in the bigger plays where the largest scores are made, select moves are used sparingly or not at all.

As far as levels and types of experts, firstly there are the academic experts. They are a different breed and are not actual hustlers or sharpers. They are usually more magician types and performers, promoting themselves by performing their expose demos and selling their knowledge through lectures, books, webinars, DVDs and the like...sort of a cottage industry endeavor. Some may be quite skillful manipulatively and academically knowledgeable but most in this category have never gone for the money, either because they are too well known, lack the courage or desire to cheat, or don't have the experience needed to successfully do so for meaningful money under varying circumstances/conditions and not get caught.

Then there is the category of actual hustlers and scuffs who have gotten and do get the money. Even in that group, as you said, there are different levels of expertise. Among the professional hustlers I have known, there are those who successfully get the money in casino and professional poker formats and no one is the wiser that anything untoward is occurring. These are the real pros and are often considered to be desirable player-customers to casino management and poker game operators. On the other end of the spectrum are the "more balls that brains" guys whose biggest challenge is to get out the door with the money they've stolen and to do so in one piece. And naturally, there are varying levels of accomplishment or "expertise" between these two extremes.

You mentioned Walter Scott and his punch deal. When I was a teenager, I read Eddie McGuire;s original "Phantom" manuscript about Scott, hyping Scott as being the best of the best, traveling the world, beating all comers, fooling the top magicians of that era with his great skill and cleverness, using his superior "punch," curved and molded from gold and so on - literally a real, "wonder star" of card table subterfuge. Of course, as a youngster, I was enthralled with this largely BS nonsense and believed all the romantic magician hyperbole attached to this "legend."

When I moved to Vegas and started to meet and know some of the top casino hustlers of that era, it was a completely different world. While I'll admit Scott was no doubt a superb punch and second dealer and may have gone for the money in small private games, what he did was kid stuff and pretty much meaningless compared to the casino game and professional hustling that was going on in Vegas and to a lesser extent, in the California card clubs. None of these guys did a punch deal or wanted to, but let me tell you, they made great scores in the casinos and other money games.

The biggest plays were usually team efforts. In fact, in some of the monster cash generating plays, like the chip cup scam when it was new and unknown, so much cash was generated that the hustlers involved had to use $500 and $1,000 bills (which were in circulation at the time), to cut up the money among the team members. As you mentioned, the problem with playing single-o and moving is you have to win the money yourself. Not the best way to go...highly problematic and a heat score unless you are playing for small stakes in amateur games. But...even then...???
Gamblingman007
View Profile
New user
65 Posts

Profile of Gamblingman007
Cag at least you lived those games and that era. We can only wish that we did. I sure hope that you saved your winnings so that you can live off of because I sure didn’t.

Nice story and wisdom. Take Care

TheGamblingman007
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16264 Posts

Profile of tommy
Poker used to be a cash game. Back then even small amateur games could turn into bigger games. Some amateur games, like Gin, can be worth the light, depending on the company. Such games can start off small and get bigger as the sucker chases his money. Today a lot of the amateur poker games are limited penny ante comps, which are not worth the light.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Joe Crist (5 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL