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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
For the Houdini Change, see Carneycopia.
For the Side-Steal, see The Book of Secrets. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, magicfish -- very helpful.
Bob |
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Ed Oschmann Inner circle Lake Worth FL 1011 Posts |
I agree on the Carneycopia reference. If you add the Vernon No Palm change from Inner Secrets you have a very deceiving sequence.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Ed. Nice to hear from you. I like the sound of "no palm," I've played around with palming a bit, but I gather the biggest obstacle to it is the guilt factor. So I'm waiting till I have more performance experience. I've started to work on Carney's handling and will look at Inner Secrets in conjunction with it.
Bob |
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Ed Oschmann Inner circle Lake Worth FL 1011 Posts |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Nice! Thanks for sharing. You make it look so easy...
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 9, 2020, Bob G wrote: Hi Bob, Can we casually talk about the unconscious psychological factors that induce your fear of palming? At which moment do you have a feeling of "guilt"? The card-stealing phase or the card-concealing phase? And what kind of "guilt"? The fear of being found out? Or the feeling of having dishonorably tricked the spectator? When you feel "guilty", what would you like to have happen? Misdirect the spectator to look away from your "guilty" hand? How long do you intend to wait before you gain sufficient palming-related performance experience? What kind of performance experience can boost your confidence in palming? |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Sam,
You have a gift for asking good questions. I've never performed or practiced a trick that uses the palm, so I was referring to things I've read. So I can't answer most of your questions. But I anticipate that my difficulties will be "the fear of being found out," along with the fear of revealing a method to laypeople. (The latter is an issue for me with the double lift; probably not as much of an issue with palming because I imagine *everybody* knows about palming.) I'm rather self-conscious when performing, and I anticipate being especially so when palming: "How can they *not* see that I'm holding a card?" I currently have lots of tricks and sleights to work on; that's the only reason I'm not practicing palming, the cull spread, etc. To boost my confidence I would start with tricks in which there's strong, built-in misdirection. Paul Hallas (I think) suggested to me a version of Cards Across that has those characteristics, and I'd be open to others. To Ed: I looked up the"no-palm" color change, and remembered that I had seen it before and that it actually does involve a palm! Maybe color changes would be another good way to start palming? See you, Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
P. S. to Sam: Interesting that you brought up the idea of "dishonorably tricking the spectator." In general I have no qualms about that -- the spectators are presumably agreeing to be tricked for their own enjoyment. Certain techniques do strike me as dishonorable, though. For instance, giving a false summary of what has just happened, in effect changing the spectator's memory of the event. That feels too close to mind control.
Bob |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
"How can they *not* see that I'm holding a card?"
- Because they have no reason to suspect you'd be holding a card. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
I think you've hit on the heart of the matter, Fish. There's this whole mysterious business of body language, a casual attitude, etc. that I haven't explored much, and which I imagine is at least as important as mastering sleights and being engaging.
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts |
Hi Bob,
I think it is absolutely fine to selectively perform the no-palm routines. After all, there are plenty of interesting card miracles that don't require palming. Based on your confession, I believe that you are quite comfortable with sleights that are embedded or covered in the natural act of handling the cards, such as Biddle Count, Elmsley Count, False Cuts, False Shuffles, Shuffle Controls, and Double Undercuts. Though, the Double Lift, Top Change, and Color Change are probably on the borderline. However, if you like perform a routine that requires palming, it is not the end of your world. I would like to say that you can "customize" the handling to fit the palming through some clever techniques of misdirection. For example, in Mambo #5 routine, you can "comprehend" how Oz Pearlman cleverly palms the card openly in front of the spectator. By the way, what sleights are you working on? |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Sam,
Thanks for the video. I was unable to catch the palming! Pearlman must be flawlessly integrating it into his natural gestures. I agree that palming isn't necessary -- there are more non-palm tricks I'm excited about than I currently have time to learn. But eventually I want to palm. Your assessment is basically accurate -- I'm comfortable with sleights that are part of the natural handling of the cards. I haven't tried the top change. Some sleights that I'm currently working on: Erdnase/Houdini change in Carneycopia, as suggested by magicfish and Ed above. Double Turnover (lots of progress lately; with a little more practice I think I'll have it) The Glide, currently for use as a control in the Reinhardt Mueller sandwich trick (see "quick as a wink" in one of the Fulves self-working books) Biddle Steal. Nearly have it, but the stolen card often ends up a bit left-jogged from the rest of the half-deck. Advice welcome. Various overhand shuffle controls, especially G. W. Hunter. A bottom retention overhand shuffle control for Chicago Opener Elmsley Count -- I basically have this one, but keep practicing it so I don't lose it. Getting and keeping breaks. What are your interests in magic, Sam? Do you do things other than cards? Do you perform frequently? See you, Bob |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Very enjoyable, Fish. I'd never seen Carney perform before -- he's fun. Am I right that an important moment occurs at about 43 sec? (I can't quite pinpoint it, but after he says "easier to follow" the second time, the work has been done.)
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts |
Thanks for your reply, Bob.
My primary interest is in card magic, though I also occasionally perform magic involving small objects. I usually perform for family and close friends at leisure time because I have a day job to keep. Although I love my day job, I still followed my passion in magic through reading books, watching lectures, and practicing sleights. By the way, are you familiar with the Dribble Force, the Side Glide, and the Side Steal? |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
You're welcome, Sam. I'm glad you have a job you enjoy -- it isn't always easy to find one. Like you, I'm lucky in that way.
I've heard of all three sleights you mention. The version of the Glide that I want to learn is either the Side Glide as taught by Daryl in his Encyclopedia, or the Glide in Card College 1 -- which may also be the side glide. The thing about the dribble force is that I can't do a very good dribble. I've gotten better at it, but it still doesn't have that lovely feel of a gentle, unconstrained waterfall. Tips would be welcome. Side Steal always looked cool to me. Just curious -- why do you ask about these particular sleights? See you, Bob |
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts |
Hi Bob,
Try executing the above three sleights in a series of sequential moves. Sometimes, you have to construct the transition from one sleight to another. Alternatively, you may use a simpler set of sequential sleights, namely the Riffle Force, the Two-handed Glide, and the Gambler's Cop. If the combo works flawlessly, it should give the impression of a spectator selects a (forced) card, and loses the (switched) card in the deck, but in fact the magician steals the selection. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi guys. Bobby, Wow! I watched the video once and could never catch him palming. And I enjoyed it thoroughly. Master? Absolutely. Class? Well, I dunno. For me what he did was impenetrable. So I don't know how much it would help me start to learn to do whatever he was doing! Great video, thanks for linking.
Sam, thanks for your ideas. Both sequences that you suggest would make a short, dramatic trick, and would be good practice in learning the sleights. Bob |
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