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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and balls; final loads, are they really necessary? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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cajuninms
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I am a 14 year old guy who has really small hands (can't even palm a card) and I need to know; Are the final loads really necessary, and if so what small loads could I use?
Close.Up.Dave
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Final loads don't necessarilly mean have big final loads. They aren't necessary, but it makes the trick look a lot better. You could end with something that you can squeeze so it gets smaller. Or you could end with a small toy of some sort under the cups.
Jonathan Townsend
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If you can do the trick well enough, a solid routine would not require 'stuff' under the cups afterward.

There are also routines with smaller cups that take golf ball sized final loads.

And there is at least one cups routine that uses smaller balls and does not end with huge final loads.

You might enjoy learning some of the Tommy Wonder, Ramsay and Vernon routines.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
MJ Marrs
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A cups and balls routine without the final loads is like having

Ah, forget I said anything...
PaulGreen
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Ken Brooke stated that the final load, in the form of a change, was a great way to end the Cups and Balls.

Ken performed his version of the Vernon C & B routine one evening and used walnuts and small limes as the final loads. Needless to say the reaction was fantastic.

Final loads, of whatever size, signal a finale to the routine.

Respectfully,

Paul Green
RobertBloor
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Quote:
are the final loads really nessesary??

Yes.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Chris Berry
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Robert Bloor, care to elaborate a bit more?


Personally I use final loads. Although my cups and balls routine isn't like anything I've ever seen before (and I won't expose it here because I know how magians are Smile)

My final loads are awesome because 1) NO ONE is doing them, and 2) they have NOTHING in common with what I am originally using which makes them a complete surprise to the spectatoes.

Sometimes I use 2 final loads depending on my mood.

Chris
Pete Biro
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I once used Final Unloads.

For magicians, I did a basic routine and flashed loading jumbo balls under the cups.

Then, when I lifted the cups there was NOTHING THERE.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
KirkG
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I wish I could have seen that Pete. It sounds like a riot. Just my cup of tea. Kirk
Mario Morris
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My mate Alf is small but he plays big on his cups and balls. If you are doing it right it don't matter how small your hands are. Have you got any decent books on cups and balls?
Mario
drwilson
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Part of the fun of the final loads, if you are using larger cups, is that they are objects far too large to be concealed in the hand. When they appear, the idea that you could have put them there with everyone watching seems to be an impossible explanation. Therefore, they appeared magically.

There are many good books on the cups and balls, there will certainly be something that fits your budget. Feel free to PM me.

Yours,

Paul
chrisrkline
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This has been debated before, but you could also use sponge balls as the final load. Not as nice as something solid, but Carl Andrews does a nice two cup version with sponge balls leading into a sponge ball routine on his Table Hopping Cups and Balls DVD. I don't like the sponge balls as well, especially since I am working on Vernon's Classic routine, but they do solve the problem of pocket management (and hand size) if you are not wearing a jacket. No problem using them in a three cup routine.
Chris
Ron Giesecke
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Some day, somebody's going to compile everything Pete Biro has contributed to cup and balls thinking (in the form of his posts) and make it into a separate book on the subject.
Chris Berry
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Quote:
On 2004-04-10 10:30, Ron Giesecke wrote:
Some day, somebody's going to compile everything Pete Biro has contributed to cup and balls thinking (in the form of his posts) and make it into a separate book on the subject.


Ron, I think someday someone will just come through the Café and take ALL of Pete's posts and make a book Smile

Chris
RobertBloor
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Quote:
Chris Berry: Robert Bloor, care to elaborate a bit more?


Chris,

Final loads in Cups and Balls are about completion of the routine.

Pete mentioned his 'non' final load method of tricking magicians - that in itself, becoming a final load.

Final loads are critical to your routine. Psychologically they provide the completion people need for an effect to end.

Imagine if you will these examples...

David Copperfield does the Death Saw...and right after the guy yells, "Move your feet", he moves them, and then the lights fade to black.

Lance Burton doing the Phantom - without the switch.

Final loads signal the end of your routine. They're SUPER easy to do because they're done at a point where the spectators are "sure" they've got you figured out (then BLAMO!)

That said - final loads DO NOT have to be "big pieces of fruit" or other large objects.

What if you manipulated the balls the entire time only to turn the cups over and show they've all got a solid bottom?

Final load? You bet it is.

Or what if, as mentioned on another thread, you used the "muliplying" cups and the reason for "the ball going place to place" was because you had "all these extra cups"

Final load? Of course.

The point to a "final load" is really more of a kicker ending. It's about catching your audience completely off guard.

Perhaps part of the reason for the enormous success of Gazzo's hat load.

That said, I say yes, final loads are critical.

Without a final load as a stopping point, Cups and Balls just becomes, "pick a card" over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Robert Bloor
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Jonathan Townsend
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That line of reasoning above can lead one to conclude that one should not do the trick since it leads to no climax of its own and instead becomes a 'surprise cornucopia'.

If the trick had merit, it would stand on its own. Most people do not have to make a deck of cards become a jumbo deck to complete a card trick. Nor to they have to finish a coin assembly by finding additional coins under the covers. One does not need to produce a pool cue to complete the multiplying billiards. So, what gives the the cup loads?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pete Biro
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One could just have the balls change color. Same size just another color.

You could also load something that scares folks, like a small windup thing from a novelty shop. I once had a small round thing with legs that rotated. When you lifted the cup it would run across the table as the legs revolved. Wasn't big, but was a surprise.

Actually, I have had success with Riser's Mini Cups and using golf balls for the climax.

In my Hindu cup routine I uses 2-inch sponge balls. This lets you do the "in the lady's hand" bit too.

You could also just do the chop cup and load at the rear of the table ala Don Alan.

Oh, you could get the Stevens vid on the cups and balls and see how Mike Rogers loaded HUGE baseballs without having to palm them. (Shelf on back of table).

You can buy one of the tables someone made to load my Galli Galli cups thru three trap doors with elevators hidden in the table.

You can also do David Regal's great routine where the final loads are in the cups all of the time.

FOOLED ME SOOOO BAD.... Smile

Think outside the CUPS....
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
saturnin
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Hi,

A suggestion;

Maybe you could load same size balls but of a different colour for the final loads!!!

My 2 cents.

Ronnie Lemieux
Montreal
Canada
There is no road to happiness,

happiness is the road!
RobertBloor
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Quote:
That line of reasoning above can lead one to conclude that one should not do the trick since it leads to no climax of its own and instead becomes a 'surprise cornucopia'.

If the trick had merit, it would stand on its own. Most people do not have to make a deck of cards become a jumbo deck to complete a card trick. Nor to they have to finish a coin assembly by finding additional coins under the covers. One does not need to produce a pool cue to complete the multiplying billiards. So, what gives the the cup loads?

JT,

I think my explanation was pretty complete. Read it again.
Quote:
Pete Biro: (Re: All the mentioned ideas)

See, Pete's a smart guy. "Final loads" as I said don't mean you have to manipulate mini baseballs and make them real size baseballs.

The final load again is a kicker ending to END the trick.

BTW Pete...I like the idea of some sort of windup gizmo that'll "run" across the table. It wouldn't even have to look like something, just a little ball with spiny legs that "dances" across the table would be killer!

Without the final loads, all you're doing is finger flicking with balls. Whoopdiedoo.

Robert Bloor
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Randy Sager
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This is just an idea but you could do the Benson bowl routine. The original as done by Benson did not use any final loads at all.

just incase you are not aware of what the Benson bowl routine is. It is basicaly a one cup routine done with a bowl and some sponge balls.
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