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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and balls; final loads, are they really necessary? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TheAmbitiousCard
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They are absolutely not necessary.

If you've got a good reason NOT to use them, then don't.

As Jason L, shows us, it's also not necessary that the cups are even opaque.
I thought for sure that was necessary.

As long as you have a VERY good reason, do what you want.

... but not liking to shop for oranges does not seem like a good reason Smile
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Magicmaven
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Yeah, If you can't do the move (final load), then don't include it. lol.
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-03-29 01:13, Magicmaven wrote:
Yeah, If you can't do the move (final load), then don't include it. lol.
Anybody can do lousy final loads !
The 'art' is to do them well, meaning they'll pass unnoticed and without arousing the slightest suspection, so the final appearance of the load REALLY is a 'miracle'!
If they sense you loaded 'something' even a smal ball, the mysteri is gone..
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Magicmaven
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Exactly my point!
Jonathan Townsend
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Okay, you got the loads onto the table. You are done gloating. Now what?

There they are and there you are?

What are you doing with those things now that they are sitting there?

You've set the stage. What is the next activity that uses the props?
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Dave V
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There is none. Played the way I see it, this is the big "finale," the one they've been waiting for, so all that's left is to go into your "hat line" if you're so inclined, or simply take your bow and thank the people for watching your show.

Some will want to come up and check things out, make sure the oranges (or whatever) are real, look for trap doors in the cups, that sort of thing. Now is the perfect time for all of that.
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TheAmbitiousCard
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Your next activity could be a feeling of genuine ...Surprise!!

I don't know how they got there.
I was trying for balls. Honest.
I have no idea how it happened.
Maybe I'm not using my own magic wand? Hmm... looks like mine, alright.
Sometimes magicians make mistakes.
I was thinking ball but I was sort of thinking I was hungry
when I tapped the cup. Must have mixed up the spell.
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Magicmaven
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The traditional:

"I know many of you think I am using extra balls, and your right. See, I have one here, one here, here, and here. Well, now you know how that's done."
rikbrooks
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I would have to agree that it's not NECESSARY, after all, you don't need stitches after surgery, you could just use scotch tape and tell the patient not to move for 6 weeks - but those stitches certainly help!

I wouldn't dream of doing cups and balls without the final load. Without the wand, maybe, with more or fewer final loads, certainly.

As far as people having seen the cups and balls. I submit that very few people have actually seen a magician live - much less a particular trick. I think the extent of exposure that most people have to magic is uncle Harry's 21 card trick - and even that poorly done without the magician's choice at the end.
Bill Palmer
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Sometimes, doing ANYTHING with the final loads diminishes the impact of them. I have seen fellows do the load sequence and then immediately go into a juggling routine. It killed the applause they were getting and did nothing for their juggling routine at all.

I also think that routines in which you produce a lemon at the end of the routine, then go into the bill in lemon are confusing. Also routines where you vanish a bill, do the cups and balls, produce a lemon and then find the bill in it are not necessarily good "layman" routines. There are too many plot lines to follow.

Do the cups and balls. Close with it. Pass your hat (if you are busking).

If you do Gazzo's routine, you will understand how the melon production leads directly into the hat pass.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Okay, as a closer... and you leave the loads on the table... no problem there.

I just get irked when a performer produces stuff, then rolls it away and on to the next thing.
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Dave V
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I never imagined the Cups and Balls as anything else but a closer, especially if you do multiple, jumbo loads.

I know some don't play it as strong, leading into other things. Carl Andrews for example, performs a nice two cup sequence ending with sponge balls and transitions directly into a sponge ball routine from there.
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magicbob116
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Quote:
On 2005-03-21 13:15, Glenn Godsey wrote:
Quote:
On 2004-04-10 08:24, drwilson wrote:
Part of the fun of the final loads, if you are using larger cups, is that they are objects far too large to be concealed in the hand. When they appear, the idea that you could have put them there with everyone watching seems to be an impossible explanation. Therefore, they appeared magically.....

Yours,

Paul

Paul hit the nail on the head. The whole point to a cups or a cup routine is the surprise appearance of large objects. To the spectator, this is not a "load" - it is an impossible appearance. It seems (if well done) that there is no possible way that the magician could have put the large objects there with everyone watching. Don Alan, the first close-up table magician to appear on the Tonight Show blew everyone's minds and his entire act was based around the production of large heavy objects under cups, under hats and under bowls.
In table magic, it is the most magical thing you can do for a layman. To the layman, the small balls in the 3 cups or in the chop cup are just a rather boring preliminary to the shocking and inexplicable surprise!

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

This has always been my opinion. The surprise of a DIFFERENT object appearing is good, but because the object is too large to even fit in the cup, then HOW did it get there?

P.S. For those of you who like the traditional lemon or orange production... Wal-mart (and probably most craft/hobby stores) stocks plastic fruit in the craft department that looks very real... and you don't have to worry about spoilage between performances!
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Bill Palmer
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But the Wal-Mart fruit has a hard exterior, and will talk if you are using a metal cup. I've tried it. I check it from time to time. Ammar's Fab Fruit is better.

As pointed out in another thread, the fruit from http://www.faxfoods.com/ has a softer exterior, as well.
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Sam Tabar
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Won't the "talking" be masked by the ambient noise and your patter. Perhaps one could tap the cups with their wand or another cup the same way Paul Gertner does when loading the final load steel balls.
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magic guy
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When I do "Conan the Ball Bearing," my final load is a ball bearing too large for the cup -- a fake like Paul Gertner's. Also, you don't really need to tap the cups to cover the talking if you practice absolute control of the ball bearings. It takes time to master, but I've been doing it for years.

When I'm doing the coffee cups and balls with Mike Rogers 3/4" baseballs, I top the mouth-down cups with the large loads, in my case 2" juggling bags and a smiley ball. Then as an afterthought, I mention to the audience member who produced the first of the three loads, smiley, that we've forgotten something. He removes the load from his cup, waves his hand over the cup and picks it up to find -- the three little balls we started with. At that point, eyeballs pop out of heads and begin rolling around the table.

As for possible loads for the small-pawed originator of this thread, try a set of 2" juggling bags. More important, be sure you're using proper cup-to-pocket technique with a simple turnaround of the loading hand to load the cup. That ought to solve your angle problems.

Good luck, and keep at it!

:)ed
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johnnymystic
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Cups and balls without a final load is like sex without an orgasam...anyway's...

I Did a bad thing this afternoon...I found four pokemon toys with shiny steel ballbearings inside, these I found in my sons toy box.

10 mins later I had these nice mirror like finish steel balls in my greedy mit's, all four of 'em.

Now I think to myself, how do I use them the right way? I do not and will not ever sit, so lappin's outta the question, just loading these things seperatly under each cup is rough buisness to say the least.

My question is this...does this sorta thing require a different style of technique/handling? I saw Paul Gertners routine once, years ago and can only recall the final load sequence...WHATS THAT TELL YOU??? THAT FINAL LOADS ARE NECESARY, THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE REMEMBER YEARS LATER. Smile Smile Smile...so I do not recall his handling, I just know I was impressed greatly.

I plan on trying my hand at busking this summer, steel balls won't blow away.

So whats the skinny on using steel balls instead of regular ones?

johnny
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Lawrens Godon
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Today, after learning a lot of differents routines, I use a 2-cups routine with the best vanishes I could work out of the little balls and wand...About the final loads, I've found that I could make some magic with the little balls in hands :

-The first is a direct transformation in hands...
-The second is the charlie Miller move with a little ball passing through the cup and transforming all the way through,
-The third I produce it from under the stacked cups...

This way I found that my routine was enhanced because the magic continues as the muscades change form visually, and the last load from under the cups works as a final surprise to the routine...
Christopher Moro
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Paul Gertner teaches his Steel Cups and Ball Bearings on his videos & book, Steel & Silver. It's largely based on the Vernon routine, but his presentation begins centered around the sound a ball bearing makes when under a cup. That's the brilliance of the phases before the loads. He uses what we'd normally expect to be a problem to his advantage. The sound element adds a completely new element. Your memory is probably jogged now, huh, Johnny? Smile
johnnymystic
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Well, I'll tell ya...after playing around with the steel balls and cups late into lastnite, or should I say in the wee hours of the morn'

yes, I found that one must use sound to your advantage.

johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux
<BR>I never inhale Smile
<BR>I can put a field dress on a deer
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