The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and balls; final loads, are they really necessary? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
4734 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2011-05-24 18:19, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
L*, if you mean leaving the motivating principle in action that the performer is demonstrating a mystery - agreed.


Yes, exactly what I meant. Implication rather than explanation.
As for methods, as a math teacher I had would say, "the rest we'll leave to the accountants*."

*Not that there's anything wrong with accountants . . .
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26992 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Did you see the rubber walnuts on the other thread?
was thinking of a peanut and a walnut kept in a little paper ice cream cup - the kind that comes with a lid.
hmmmm
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Roger_Staton
View Profile
New user
81 Posts

Profile of Roger_Staton
I do not believe a final load is necessary, if you can perform an effect in such a powerful way I believe anyone can make a coin from the ear become a modern miracle, such is the same with cups and balls, or any other effect, although I feel that, for me at least, a final load is a must for me in performances because it leaves the spectators with that feeling of wonder that most of us here are in it for.

Posted: Jun 15, 2011 4:15pm
I also feel as if, back to the topic at the beginning, that if you pick up some books by Tommy Wonder and read his theory on misdirection you would learn a lot of great ways to redirect the attention of the spectators so well that you could put a final load in full view and not get caught. So I believe with a lot of practice of the right things that your hand size should not be a factor in your success. Point can be proven when you see a small child playing piano like a star. I play piano and I know a lot of chords were hard for me to stretch to at first, but if you practice you can make the moves, or find new ways of doing the moves, but no matter what there is no fast track method and I feel as getting rid of the final load is just quitting because its too tough. There is always a way to get things done with a little practice a creativity.
DomKabala
View Profile
Inner circle
I've grown old after diggin' holes for
2826 Posts

Profile of DomKabala
No final loads in this routine (after the candle vanish)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEqUrmXLV_A

Cupsamagically,
Dom Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24222 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
@Roger:

Once you have the required 50 posts, you will be able to access the Secret Sessions. There is a wealth of material in there about final load logic.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18559 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Wonder who's hands were doing the teacups and balls? Anyone know?
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
ringmaster
View Profile
Inner circle
Memphis, Down in Dixie
1654 Posts

Profile of ringmaster
In Ammar's book, Gazzo talks about not using final loads when they would step on crowd reaction.
On a much lower scale, I have sold hundreds of sets of Adams cups, to real people, for real money using the forth ball as the final load.
Less than 2% of reported UFO's turn out to be actual interplanetary vehicles.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24222 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
This may be so, but Gazzo doesn't perform the cups and balls without the final loads. If you re-read the Gazzo section in the Ammar book, you will see that he does mention stopping after the third orange. When he refers to not doing the final loads, he refers to not doing the other three oranges and the melon.

BTW, I may be wrong about this, but I'm fairly sure that the interview in the book was done before Gazzo had his stroke. In other words, it's at least 17 years old. Gazzo's routine is basically the same, but certain aspects of his performing are a bit different.

Why reveal the fourth ball, when you can just as easily load in a golf ball?
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
ringmaster
View Profile
Inner circle
Memphis, Down in Dixie
1654 Posts

Profile of ringmaster
Point taken, I misread Gazzo.
When I first started deming cups I did use a plastic golf ball thing. I stopped years ago for several reasons. I wasn't including the golf ball and most folks rightly felt it was beyond their ability. Layman want a smart looking trick that they feel they can do right away. I'm going to disagree with psychic reverend, when I sell something, I want the purchaser to actually be able to do it. Whether or not they do, is another matter.
The dem I show uses only the one turn over move,repeated four times. That greatly simplifies the explination The different phases are actually identical, but disguised by changes in timing, acting. I throw away the first pass, the second is done in exaggerated slo-motion that is ridiculously open, the third is a retention of vision kind of thing. Then I stop, lose interest in the props completely for a beat and then do a gag that lets me produce the forth ball on the of beat and let every thing be examined. Not great magic, but it is commercial in the sense that it gets real money from real people, every time. And they go away happy.
That's in the magic shop; in the parlor with my Charlie Miller's I use four La Cross balls.
Less than 2% of reported UFO's turn out to be actual interplanetary vehicles.
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2699 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2004-04-09 23:34, cajuninms wrote:
I am a 14 year old guy who has really small hands (can't even palm a card) and I need to know; Are the final loads really necessary, and if so what small loads could I use?


When I read Mark Wilson's routine in "The Encyclopedia of Magic." He suggested having three lemons in your pocket. I can't imagine having three lemons in any pocket (coat or pant) that wouldn't look like I had a goiter!

I thought about this for awhile and then used some red yarn to make golf ball sized balls. Reaching the end of the routine where the three little balls keep appearing under the cup, I patter that they're probably hard to see because they're so tiny but there really is one ball under each cup. (Showing the golf ball sized balls that I snuck in at the point where I was supposed to be sneaking in the lemons.)

I am considering a lime to produce under the stack at the end claiming that after the show, I'm going home and opening an ice-cold Carona.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24222 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Quote:
On 2004-04-09 23:34, cajuninms wrote:
I am a 14 year old guy who has really small hands (can't even palm a card) and I need to know; Are the final loads really necessary, and if so what small loads could I use?

Ed:

Thanks for bringing us back to the beginning of this whole topic.

To cajunims, I point out the example of Max Malini, who was famous because he had hands that were extremely small, yet he managed to palm cards and other objects very well. If you can't palm a card, you need to read what Malini did. Of course, by now, you are about 20 years old, and barring some kind of odd accident, you are probably bigger.

You don't have to palm final loads.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
yin_howe
View Profile
Special user
Malaysia
729 Posts

Profile of yin_howe
Quote:
You don't have to palm final loads.

I think that this is one of the secrets that make the CnB Magicial!
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
Dr_J_Ayala
View Profile
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2167 Posts

Profile of Dr_J_Ayala
[quote]On 2011-06-29 18:43, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:

You don't have to palm final loads.



This is very true. If you do find yourself doing this, you had better look at your routining and your performance practice (or lack thereof)...
HerbLarry
View Profile
Special user
Poof!
731 Posts

Profile of HerbLarry
My loads are in my palm till they get to the cup with 3 different amounts of time held out.
So that means I gave no thought to the routine or the practicing thereof?
Yeah well there's no action with the 3 balls so that means I'm swimming upstream anyway.
I'm just extremely lucky that people dig my bits I suppose.
Statements like "you had better..." do little for me.
You know why don't act naive.
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1119 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
Being "in the palm" and being "palmed" are actually two different things.
I suppose I could say my loads are in my palm also, but for the split second that one is residing there, they are not palmed.
One of my good friends is a full time close up performer - works surrounded all the time (you should see the restraints he puts on a classic palm for these conditions!) - he is quite adamant that the cup must "come to the load" and not the other way around. I would not say he palms a load at all - he loads baseballs into a full size Don Alan Chop Cup.

But it sounds like HerbLarry is actually concealing a load in the hand for a period of time. That's fine as long as you are not working surrounded and the load can be fully covered by the hand. That is not always possible.
I think Yin Howe hits it right on the head when he says "I think that this is one of the secrets that make the CnB Magical!".
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1119 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
Personally, I subscribe to the theory that the tricks with the three little balls are just an entertaining distraction to allow me to sneak the big things under the cups.
To me, it's not really complete until the finale, and that's what makes the trick memorable and lasting.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
yin_howe
View Profile
Special user
Malaysia
729 Posts

Profile of yin_howe
[quote]On 2011-08-22 17:45, Dr_J_Ayala wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-06-29 18:43, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:

You don't have to palm final loads.



This is very true. If you do find yourself doing this, you had better look at your routining and your performance practice (or lack thereof)...


Quote:
On 2011-08-22 20:53, Donnie Buckley wrote:
Being "in the palm" and being "palmed" are actually two different things......

.....But it sounds like HerbLarry is actually concealing a load in the hand for a period of time. That's fine as long as you are not working surrounded and the load can be fully covered by the hand. That is not always possible.
I think Yin Howe hits it right on the head when he says "I think that this is one of the secrets that make the CnB Magical!".


I think Mr Palmer's statement can be better worded as "u do not need to hide the final load with your hand"..

Most laymen may think: how the hell did the baseball get in the cup when it's too big to hide it in his hand!"
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
HerbLarry
View Profile
Special user
Poof!
731 Posts

Profile of HerbLarry
Quote:
But it sounds like HerbLarry is actually concealing a load in the hand for a period of time.

Yes I am.

Quote:
That's fine as long as you are not working surrounded and the load can be fully covered by the hand. That is not always possible.

Or there is no visible movement obtaining the load, the hand is in a most natural position, and attention is directed 2 1/2 feet away when the loading process is done.
Verbal, physical, logical, practical, and natural direction motivate the loading process. The hand with the load is the most insignificant thing on the planet even after it has done it's job and begins the business of quietly putting another layer of innocence on it's intentions.
You know why don't act naive.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and balls; final loads, are they really necessary? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL