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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Magic camp (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

jay leslie
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Southern California
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While performing a show for eight year olds I brought-out a What's Next which is a special model with a surprise hole as a conclusion. If you don't know the trick don't worry, just remember that it's a step beyond the normal What's Next.

So I brought-out my model, started the routine and one of the kids yells "That's What's Next with the spots that are magnetic". They reach in a bag, hold up theirs and say "We got these at magic camp".

I compressed the routine to two flips of the card, moving everything into place, while the kid was holding their card and sliding the spots around herself. "I know how that works she said... it's got these magnetic spots" - "Hold on" I said" and turned mine around showing the hole in the card which saved the routine.

One minute later I started the Linking Rings and guess what? That's correct, she pulled a set of 8 inch rings from another bag. Later I had a militated parasol and the same child called out "Look in the bag for more cloths".

Forget about how I handled her "There's 8 rings and three of them are together - and look for the one that has a slit”. Luckily, a good magician can outmaneuver an 8 year old with false counts and switching ring moves. That's not the point.

What magic camp is using such poor judgement to teach 8 year olds a working magicians bread and butter? Shouldn't 8 year olds be learning the Weisenheimer Coin Trick, Salt Shaker through table, or any other of a hundred simple tricks that teach principles of the art? Shouldn't they be learning Buddha Papers and Flying Eagles? Where did a magic camp become an excuse to upsell more expensive props as a way to maximize profits?

Why did this child tell me she knew about illusion bases and double blades on head choppers?

It was obvious the 8 year old couldn't even perform What's Next, all she could do was move spots around as a way to show me she knew the secret. She couldn't perform the routine at all. She didn't understand the routine and the reason it works. All she she knew was the basics of the mechanism as as such it was no longer magic it was just a metal board with movable parts.

Same thing with the linking rings. There was no appreciation for the years it takes to develop a complete routine. All she knew was the mechanical aspects which reduces the magic to nothing more then metal parts.

What is going on? Is there some magician out there who can't get shows that wants to ruin it for the rest of us? Are they just oblivious to the difference of magic being an art form as opposed to magic as a puzzle?

There's a huge difference between introducing someone to the art of magic and someone who exposes the workings because they never learned the basics themselves. I suspect that's what happened. Magic is not about buying a trick to make you famous. Having bigger and more professional props is a way to sell more shows. Larger props can be seen by larger audiences which allows you to sell more tickets.

It's not acceptable to say that exposure has been around as long as magic. It's irresponsible to say that exposure helps the art. How would you like it if you started your show and someone, who wasn't a magician told everyone else how the tricks worked, while your performing them? If you think exposure is acceptable please post your set list and where you're working the next 10 shows so I can send everyone the directions and let's see how you like it.

This isn't a hypothetical situation. If someone called-out your secrets then every trick would be cut short or stopped and you wouldn't have a show at all. The 3 shell game, 3 card Monty and Cups & Balls may be the exceptions because of all the vairations but that’s about it.

Let’s assume the magic camp was run by younger magicians who never learned from a mentor. Let’s assume the magic camp was run by someone who grew up on internet videos and really isn't a magician just a person doing tricks, a tricker.

There's a big difference between someone who does tricks and a magician. If you are teaching new people the art of magic please remember that magic is an art and not just the secrets that make the magician.
Dr. Delusion
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Eugene, Oregon.
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Dang, that had to be tough. Those are some pretty fancy tricks they a teaching and giving to the kids. Even some of the tricks you can buy at the dollar store are knock offs of some pretty good stuff. Last week I had a show that was a 30 minute show, followed by 15 minutes of teaching the kids a few tricks. I stuck with the simple stuff, a few rubber band tricks, the scotch tape on a balloon so you could shove a pin in it..stuff like that. I have mentored a few kids in the past, and yes, I always try to stress to them that there is so much more to being a magician then just doing one trick after another.
Bob.
Dick Oslund
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Inner circle
7750 Posts

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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2017, jay leslie wrote:
While performing a show for eight year olds I brought-out a What's Next which is a special model with a surprise hole as a conclusion. If you don't know the trick don't worry, just remember that it's a step beyond the normal What's Next.

So I brought-out my model, started the routine and one of the kids yells "That's What's Next with the spots that are magnetic". They reach in a bag, hold up theirs and say "We got these at magic camp".

I compressed the routine to two flips of the card, moving everything into place, while the kid was holding their card and sliding the spots around herself. "I know how that works she said... it's got these magnetic spots" - "Hold on" I said" and turned mine around showing the hole in the card which saved the routine.

One minute later I started the Linking Rings and guess what? That's correct, she pulled a set of 8 inch rings from another bag. Later I had a militated parasol and the same child called out "Look in the bag for more cloths".

Forget about how I handled her "There's 8 rings and three of them are together - and look for the one that has a slit”. Luckily, a good magician can outmaneuver an 8 year old with false counts and switching ring moves. That's not the point.

What magic camp is using such poor judgement to teach 8 year olds a working magicians bread and butter? Shouldn't 8 year olds be learning the Weisenheimer Coin Trick, Salt Shaker through table, or any other of a hundred simple tricks that teach principles of the art? Shouldn't they be learning Buddha Papers and Flying Eagles? Where did a magic camp become an excuse to upsell more expensive props as a way to maximize profits?

Why did this child tell me she knew about illusion bases and double blades on head choppers?

It was obvious the 8 year old couldn't even perform What's Next, all she could do was move spots around as a way to show me she knew the secret. She couldn't perform the routine at all. She didn't understand the routine and the reason it works. All she she knew was the basics of the mechanism as as such it was no longer magic it was just a metal board with movable parts.

Same thing with the linking rings. There was no appreciation for the years it takes to develop a complete routine. All she knew was the mechanical aspects which reduces the magic to nothing more then metal parts.

What is going on? Is there some magician out there who can't get shows that wants to ruin it for the rest of us? Are they just oblivious to the difference of magic being an art form as opposed to magic as a puzzle?

There's a huge difference between introducing someone to the art of magic and someone who exposes the workings because they never learned the basics themselves. I suspect that's what happened. Magic is not about buying a trick to make you famous. Having bigger and more professional props is a way to sell more shows. Larger props can be seen by larger audiences which allows you to sell more tickets.

It's not acceptable to say that exposure has been around as long as magic. It's irresponsible to say that exposure helps the art. How would you like it if you started your show and someone, who wasn't a magician told everyone else how the tricks worked, while your performing them? If you think exposure is acceptable please post your set list and where you're working the next 10 shows so I can send everyone the directions and let's see how you like it.

This isn't a hypothetical situation. If someone called-out your secrets then every trick would be cut short or stopped and you wouldn't have a show at all. The 3 shell game, 3 card Monty and Cups & Balls may be the exceptions because of all the vairations but that’s about it.

Let’s assume the magic camp was run by younger magicians who never learned from a mentor. Let’s assume the magic camp was run by someone who grew up on internet videos and really isn't a magician just a person doing tricks, a tricker.

There's a big difference between someone who does tricks and a magician. If you are teaching new people the art of magic please remember that magic is an art and not just the secrets that make the magician.


I have been waiting since this thread began. I've been getting angrier and angrier at the lousy reasons that the OP put forth. The Professor's Nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ye gods!

Gerry W. Bob Meigs, Ambitious Card Donald Dunphy told you, Mr. OP, but your mind is made up. Well Jay just said what I think, IN SPADES!!!

I'm retired, I seldom do a show anymore, so YOU CAN'T HURT ME! BUT, there are a lot of magicians out there who, as Fran Marshall usta say: "EAT OFF IT"!

I have MENTORED more young fellows than YOU CAN IMAGINE. I didn't teach them tricks! I told them before we began: "I can't teach you anything! 'I can only help you learn!" I met Doug Henning when he was 17. I mentored. He didn't do too bad! Ditto, Bob McAllister. He earned his big break! He MC'd WONDERAMA, syndicated out of New York. He went on to MC "Kids Are People Too"! Perhaps a dozen more are now working professionals. Others are avid amateurs. THEY ALL RESPECT MAGIC, AND OTHER MAGICIANS!

I remember an old saying: "Those who CAN, DO! Those who CAN'T, TEACH!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Gerry Walkowski
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Jay,

For starters, so sorry to hear that.

Some of these magicians teaching effects like this to little kids have no shame.

I call it the slippery slope, or a race to the bottom.

Gerry
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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FYI, this thread is referenced in another thread. You might have to read the other thread, for Dick Oslund's post to make sense.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=17

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dick Oslund
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Thanks Donald, for clarifying that!

We, who love magic, must make our voices heard!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Dick Oslund
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I had been reading Danny Kazam's thread about "teaching" (ha!) kids, magic.

I was surfing the Café, and, saw Jay's post. I had been building, in my mind, what to say, to the klutz in the link that Donald, so kindly provided, and, I "exploded". I do appreciate Donald Dunphy's providing the link.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Danny Kazam
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I'll post here what I posted else where.

"Dick Oslund: I've read his post, and although it does not pertain to me, I agree with what he said. I am doing much more than just revealing tricks. There is no comparison to what I am doing and to what Jay Leslie explains. Not even one bit. I have support and backing from other magicians regardless how angry you are. 

I am a full-time professional children's entertainer who is also the most sought out children's entertainer in my province in Canada. I have worked extremely hard to build my success and reputation, and I am in good standing with fellow magicians and entertainers in our local magic club. I have nothing but the utmost respect for our art. The only trick that I teach that takes a bit of skill is the three unequal ropes/equal ropes tricks. I do not teach for free, nor do I do anything to hurt myself or anyone else in the magic community. My classes consist of much more than just revealing how tricks are done. I teach the importance of never revealing how a secret is done, plus basic beginner magic history and theory. I believe my years and experience as a children's entertainer, child development worker and educator qualifies me to teach magic to young children. 

So, in all due respect, get angry all you want. You do not pay my morgage, nor do you help, or have ever helped my career become what it is today. I owe you nothing, and you owe me nothing. You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect your rights to express yourself. But when you insinuate that I am stealing the tools with which other magician use to work, then you **** me off, and I have no issue calling you and your old cantankerous *** out on it."

I'll also add that my course I teach is structured pretty much like Danny Orlean's magic workshop for kids, other than I also teach a bit about magic history and theory. Like I said, I get paid very well for my course and I get paid very well being a full time children's performer. I didn't get to where I am today by being a hack magician. So, call me all the insults you want. Your opinion, nor you ignorant insults effects my career one bit. I'm compelled to say more, due to your foolish attack against me, but at the end of the day you're nobody important to me, so it's not worth saying more than I have just said.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
longhaired1
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Salida
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I'm curious what venue you were performing in that allowed a child to repeatedly interrupt your act with no one stepping in to intervene. Perhaps regardless of the specific content of the heckling a strategy for dealing with these kinds of outbursts is in order. I have a few that I use,
jay leslie
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Southern California
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Wow
These were kids being kids at a birthday party. Are you proposing that I put a gag on them?
These were just kids being kids.
danaruns
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The City of Angels
670 Posts

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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, jay leslie wrote:
Are you proposing that I put a gag on them?


Not the worst idea...

;)
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
D. Yoder
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One thing that should have been taught at the camp the kids attended was respect for another performer. In all my classes I stress that knowledge of how something is done does not give you the right to interrupt the performance of another magician. Even eight year olds can grasp that idea.
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