The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » What is Lame, Out of Date Magic? Does it exist? (30 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
danaruns
View Profile
Special user
The City of Angels
793 Posts

Profile of danaruns
In rethinking this, I guess my answer is "it depends." There is nothing wrong with musicians playing classic songs their whole careers. They don't need to be original. And they will have an audience. But if you want to be original, your material must be original.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
glennmagi
View Profile
New user
52 Posts

Profile of glennmagi
Near the end of a DVD where a magician was talking frankly during an interview, he said (he was probably in his mid 40yrs) that he was paid to do magic show at an event featuring all teenagers, he said it was a disaster. He couldn't connect with them. In this case it would have probably been better if they had gotten a magician in his twenties or so. So yes, it really does depend. I know I'm surprised about how many variables there can be. Of course we magicians just have to do our best in all conditions, but I do seek the elusive universal.
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6154 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On Sep 4, 2017, danaruns wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 4, 2017, longhaired1 wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 4, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
Tricks that are overdone should be avoided but I think the problem is exaggerated in the minds of some magicians. Most people don't see many magicians over time and are quite impressed by standards done well.


Yes! My sense of things with my audiences is that many of them have heard of the Linking Rings, far fewer have ever seen them performed.


And yet, almost no one is astounded, baffled or fooled by the impossibility of them. They have become staid, trivial and cliché.

In my personal opinion, the way most ring routines are done (i.e. the traditional "look how these rings link and unlink, so amazing!") is not good magic in the 21st century the way, say, reaching your hand through a glass fish tank and retrieving a signed card would be (to give the first example that comes to mind). Again, I'll cite Pop/Whit Haydn's four-ring routine as one that is excellent and entertaining in today's world, and hold it up against the traditional routine, which IMHO should be relegated to the history books. Some things are simply past their "use by" date, and the traditional linking rings routine is one such example.

IMHO, all magicians should learn a traditional ring routine and be able to perform it, and then should not perform it. It's like ragtime music. Every good pianist learns to play it, but doesn't perform it, because ragtime has passed its prime. Sure there are a handful of people who enjoy it. But don't equate them with the gazillions of Beyonce fans, and don't equate ragtime music with rock and roll or hip hop. Perhaps a better example is silent films. Some still love them as a nostalgic throwback, and that's where traditional ring routines lie. But the movie industry has moved on. So should magicians. Pop has taken the silent film rings, and turned them into a hilarious "talkie." So should everyone else evolve their ring presentations.

All this is, of course, just MHO.

Am I correct in assuming you've never seen Richard Ross' masterpiece?
lynnef
View Profile
Inner circle
1312 Posts

Profile of lynnef
I've often wondered if it would be possible to update a cigarette routine (eg the magician quitting the bad habit). As far as use of animals, that's a mixed bag. Some magicians really love their animals/pets (eg Pif the magic dragon); and it shows. Alex Ramon kisses his (named) doves as he puts them back in their cage, etc. Wild animals however are a different subject. Lynn
danaruns
View Profile
Special user
The City of Angels
793 Posts

Profile of danaruns
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, magicfish wrote:
Am I correct in assuming you've never seen Richard Ross' masterpiece?


No. Of course I've seen it, he's been doing essentially the same routine for decades.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
I think the problem is lame magicians trying to relate when they ought to be trying to do quite the opposite.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8512 Posts

Profile of funsway
Might have missed it, but no one has mentioned playing cards. A have century ago every home had decks of card lying around and everyone played card games. They were "natural" and not props.
Today many people have never handled a deck and I have read many younger folks do not know the make up of a deck, e.g. four of each denomination and only four suits.

Yet, most of the "new offerings" on the Café' are special decks of cards and "doing card tricks" seems to be growing. Np question these tricks are entertaining. Are the magic -- harder to evaluate.

My only point is that "some" card tricks are lame/outdated because they assume a knowledge on the average spectator that may nor exist. Also, they might be considered a "prop" rather than a natural object (impromptu.

This can be overcome by story line and combination with other effects. Many of the sleights employed can be used with other objects.

...

as to other "obsolete" tricks, the methods are worth studying as they can be adapted to other objects, e.g. several thimble moves work with finger rings. I have a 30's cigarette load device that works fine with crayons.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
19761 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I have never run into large groups of people who do not know what playing cards are. I have not run into a single person, though they must exist.

My family has lots of 17ish folks and all their friends know what cards are. They are absolutely still in the culture.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MeetMagicMike
View Profile
Inner circle
Gainesville Fl
3090 Posts

Profile of MeetMagicMike
Cards are still in the culture but very much on their way out. Young people know about cards because their parents play with them. When I ask people to pick a card I always explain the difference between clubs and spades and even then they often confuse them.
Magic Mike

MeetMagicMike.com



I took the Pledge
lynnef
View Profile
Inner circle
1312 Posts

Profile of lynnef
Recently while riding on a train, a fellow noticed a pack of cards in my front pocket, and promptly asked if I do magic. Note... he didn't assume I was on my way to a poker game, or card game among friends, etc. I wasn't advertising magic in any way eg with magic accessories hanging on me. Perhaps, even if card GAMES are 'on their way out', a deck of cards may be more associated with magic than games. Joshua Jay recently did a study of audience responses to card magic in either Genii or Magic. I seem to recall that audiences are so-so in their feelings about card magic; however it changes when they become up-close spectators. Lynn
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
Poker is more popular than ever and is mostly played by young fellows.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
danaruns
View Profile
Special user
The City of Angels
793 Posts

Profile of danaruns
Lots of things are on their way out. You know what's on it way out? Coins. Cash in general, but especially coins.

I recently went to a bank to get several half-dollars. The perfectly intelligent-seeming young bank teller didn't know what they were. A bank teller didn't know what a 50-cent piece was. A person who works with money all day. At some point we will have to stop doing magic with money, and learn to do it with debit cards and credit cards. And with the ability to pay by just holding your phone near the point of sale, even the cards may be on their way out before too long.

For people who've been around several decades, our whole everyday world is becoming magical, perhaps more magical than the trifling tricks we perform. Paying a bill with a box in your pocket that gives you all the world's information at your fingertips, and it's a telephone too, and a camera, and a way to stay in touch with friends, and even share pictures of your cat and your lunch with people all around the world. You can even talk about magic with people you've never met. Now that's something that is mind-blowingly magical. How the heck can a card trick compare with that???
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
8512 Posts

Profile of funsway
I am slowly shifting to using Chinese coins since I can justify their existence - 'People in China still use hard money to buy things."

and poker chips - just in case I find some guests playing Tripoly or poker.

On the other hand, with science and cleaning products seeming magical, perhaps weird props is the last refuge of "must be magic" in a traditional sense.

Entrance to the world where magic is normal is though a portal. Rings, strange coins and brass cups can serve that purpose.

"This is a silver dollar. Look though it like a lens. What do you see? I will show you what I see. Come close."

but, I have always preferred to use stones, buttons, candy and nuts anyway for magic effects - so, I am safe for while. "That isn't a nut - they come in plastic bags all chopped up." Smile
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8364 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Quote:
On Sep 5, 2017, glennmagi wrote:
Near the end of a DVD where a magician was talking frankly during an interview, he said (he was probably in his mid 40yrs) that he was paid to do magic show at an event featuring all teenagers, he said it was a disaster. He couldn't connect with them. In this case it would have probably been better if they had gotten a magician in his twenties or so. So yes, it really does depend. I know I'm surprised about how many variables there can be. Of course we magicians just have to do our best in all conditions, but I do seek the elusive universal.


Interesting! I've worked a gezillion high schools with some very "sharp" young people. I got many Standing Ovations! (Twice, in the "middle" of the program, with the BREAKAWAY FAN!) I wrote up my fan routine in the book! Oh! I think that my breakaway fan (and breakaway wand, and .22 cal. shooting wand, + a few wand gags is original!

Nate Leipzig said, a few GENERATIONS ago: "If they like YOU, they will like what you do!"

That 40 year old magician (see glennmagic's post above) said, "He couldn't connect with them."

A wise performer, sells HIMSELF, first!!!


P.S.: I was 76 when I retired from the road, in '08.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8364 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
P.P.S. I think that Danny boiled it down to the essence!

It aint the tricks, it aint the props, it aint even the effects! It's the PRESENTATION!

Comedian Jack Benny did the same "schtick", all his life. People loved HIM. Jay did the classics. Harry Jr. ditto, Neil Foster, ditto. Al Flosso, ditto. Richard Pitchford, ditto, I could go on with names, ad infinitum!

It aint WHAT ya do, it's HOW ya do it.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15746 Posts

Profile of tommy
Magic is out of this world, something that does not occur in their daily life and therefore, then, it is that which they cannot relate to. Yet some magicians talk about making their magic relative. Talk about a dilemma!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
lynnef
View Profile
Inner circle
1312 Posts

Profile of lynnef
Loved that last post, Tommy. (as well posts re 'presentation') People who want to see magic (and there are many out there) will watch a thimble routine, applaud, laugh, etc. Yet, how many of us really use thimbles in our daily lives, let alone colored, glow in the dark, jumbo, nesting thimbles? Oops, gotta run...I just spilled some of my pixie dust. Lynn
MeetMagicMike
View Profile
Inner circle
Gainesville Fl
3090 Posts

Profile of MeetMagicMike
Dick Osland typed:

Quote:
Comedian Jack Benny did the same "schtick", all his life. People loved HIM


True, but I'm pretty sure the way people reacted to him and his "schtick: changed over that lifetime. At one point it may have been cutting edge, then comfortable, then nostalgic, and eventually corny or perplexing (for young audiences).

In my own case, I know Milton Berle was a legend but I never really got him and late one night a movie that he starred in (along with Bert Lahr) came on and it was the worst thing I have ever watched. I watched the whole thing out of a weird sense "what were people thinking?"

That's not a knock on Berle but just a comment on the fact that times change and references can lose their meaning.
Magic Mike

MeetMagicMike.com



I took the Pledge
Dick Oslund
View Profile
Inner circle
8364 Posts

Profile of Dick Oslund
Sorrt MMMIke, but, I am one of "those people".

"...pretty sure" and "may have been" are obviously, to me, at least, your OPINIONS. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but, you are forming them, long after Benjamin Kubelsky is gone. --And, I suspect that you have never seen/heard Benny perform. Waukegan, Illinois named a school after him, long before he was gone. (That doesn't advance the point, particularly, but, it does give one an idea of how people felt about him.

Not many comedians had as steady a listening (and, with TV, a watching) audience. Benny started in vaudeville, went on to radio, and, then on to TV.

I'll grant that my personal taste is involved here, and, "concerning taste, we ought not argue,

His "mugger and the "Your money or your life" bit, became a "classic", as did many other of his bits. Part of his appeal, was that he let his people get the laughs, at HIS expense. It is my opinion that he lasted, all those years, because he was so unselfish.

Milton Berle was the complete opposite! He certainly had talent, but it was definitely, "me first".

I'm not "mad" at you! You have certainly contributed a lot to all of us. I just had to get this "on paper"!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
MeetMagicMike
View Profile
Inner circle
Gainesville Fl
3090 Posts

Profile of MeetMagicMike
No offence taken Mr Osland. I appreciate your input.
Magic Mike

MeetMagicMike.com



I took the Pledge
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » What is Lame, Out of Date Magic? Does it exist? (30 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.17 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL