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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The April 2004 entrée: Wesley James » » Flourishes? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bishthemagish
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Flourishes? Juggler magician or card shark?

In my opinion a magician is still a magician even if he does his (OR HER) moves with a flourish…

Dai Vernon did a great vanish of a ball with a spin of a wand. A move that was inspired by Silent Mora and
the flourish VANISH that he did while vanishing a ball onstage.

The spin of the fan or the wand is indeed a flourish and a move that could be considered a juggling move but then the ball vanished! MAGIC HAPPENED!

In card magic I like the one handed cuts, card fans, flourishes of all kinds. They can impress an audience that the performer has great skill and is at the top of the food chain when it comes to magic.

I enjoy the little flourish moves that Bill Malone does with the deck of cards while he is performing an effect called Sam the Bellhop. Even though you could do the effect without the flourishes and the shuffles. It fits him as a performer and I feel he is one of the best that is out there doing magic today.

But if you are a card cheat and you cheat at the card table for money… I think the flourishes could get you in a whole lot of trouble.

Flourishes may be considered juggling to some magicians but they can be an important part of the ENTERTAINMENT tools we use to bring sight value to a magic show to as part of an evenings entertainment.

Glenn Bishop
http://www.mrhypnotist.org
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Wesley James
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Glenn,
I think you've set up a straw man. No one anywhere in this thread has written that flourishes couldn't be entertaining. They produce no secret result, however, and no magical effect, therefore, they are not magic. Juggling is a fair characterization. Juggling can be entertaining to watch but it isn't magic. Moreover, it may be argued, that juggling succeeds more as a circus skill than a theater skill. The debate, to the degree that those who have weighed in have stayed on topic, has been whether flourishes detract for magic, not from the entertainment.

It is certainly true that magic, as we perform it today, is an entertainment--though it was not always so--but we do not bill ourselves as entertainers; our billing is "Magician." Any choice we make that detracts from the magic we perform should, IMO, be judged for the price it exacts. That price may not be the same for all performers. I have asserted that the closer ones performance character hews to offering a magical frame to their offerings the more offering the competing explanation of skill detracts from the magic, but not necessarily the entertainment.

We could, no doubt, engage in another thread that explores what constitutes entertainment in this day and age. A performer like the Amazing Jonathan, for example, who, depending upon ones taste may be funny, has performed entire sets in which no magical effect is ever successfully performed, nor is one intended. Whatever Jonathan's background or capabilities, when performing in that way is Jonathan a magician? I think not. I think he is a prop comedian. Would adding flourishes to his performance make him a magician. Again, I think not; he would be a prop comedian including some juggling/flourishes. Perhaps only by looking at the subject this starkly does it become clear. If there is no effect, no apparent violation of natural law, there is no magic.

Entertainment is very different matter. One can perform magic and still not be in the least bit entertaining. Attend a typical magic meeting, there'll be lots of non-entertaining magic offered. 'Tis a pity but sadly so.

Wesley James
RiffClown
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Quote:
On 2004-04-18 12:03, Wesley James wrote:
Entertainment is very different matter. One can perform magic and still not be in the least bit entertaining. Attend a typical magic meeting, there'll be lots of non-entertaining magic offered. 'Tis a pity but sadly so.

Wesley James


Well Said!!!!! Now, which is more important, the magic or the entertainment?
Rob "Riff, the Magical Clown" Eubank aka RiffClown
<BR>http://www.riffclown.com
<BR>Magic is not the method, but the presentation.
Wesley James
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Rob,
I think that depends upon your billing, your talent, your desire to earn a living and your need for approbation. There have been some wonderful musicians who never caught on with the public. Some could and did change their style to better make a living. Some couldn't make that change and were effectively driven from the business. Art doesn't demand entertainment value but the grocery does.

I find the question somewhat moot, however, since magic and entertainment are clearly not mutually exclusive. If you bill yourself as a magician, you are somewhat obligated to offer magic. If you want to eat regularly, you should offer entertainement as well. If you combine the two, you have the best of both worlds.

Wesley James
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We are definitely I2I! Smile
Rob "Riff, the Magical Clown" Eubank aka RiffClown
<BR>http://www.riffclown.com
<BR>Magic is not the method, but the presentation.
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2004-04-18 12:24, Wesley James wrote:
Rob,
Art doesn't demand entertainment value but the grocery does. Wesley James


This is one of the best post I have read in the Café. in a few short words is written a lot about the Business of the art of magic and the business of making money with the performance of magic.

And above is one of the best lines.

Thank you Wesley James...

Glenn Bishop
http://www.mrhypnotist.org
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2004-04-18 12:03, Wesley James wrote:
Glenn,
I think you've set up a straw man. No one anywhere in this thread has written that flourishes couldn't be entertaining. They produce no secret result, however, and no magical effect, therefore, they are not magic.
Wesley James


I never posted that flourishes were magic but I think that they could be called part of a magic performance. Vernon's wand spin is called a flurish vanish by me - but the end result is a magic effect - the vanish.

To me comedy - music - juggling etc are all just tools that we choose to use to help make (the end result) magic/entetainment.

That is what I have posted - perhaps I am not that great at writing it!

Best ahead,

Glenn Bishop
http://www.mrhypnotist.org
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
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