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alicauchy Veteran user Málaga, Spain 310 Posts 
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Quote:
On Sep 22, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: The following is an excerpt of the introduction by Randy Wakeman to Whit Haydn's booklet Chicago Surprise. "Jim Ryan's version was published as a version of the original effect by Al Leech and appeared in JIM RYAN CLOSE-UP: Entertaining Card Quickies" (1980) pp. 7-9, titled AL LEECH'S RED HOT MAMA." Unfortunately, I don't have access to Ryan's book in order to check whether DLs are used or not.
So much to do, so little time . . .
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camron Regular user 160 Posts
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I have all of Mr. Ryan's books... I will check when I'm home
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts
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Thanks, Sudo. Someone suggested a thick card to me on a different thread also, and I'll give it a try. Bob
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts
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Alicauchy, I love your photo! I'm a mathematician, specializing in analysis -- complex analysis earlier in my career. Bob
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carlyle Regular user 166 Posts
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I've worked quite a bit on my DL (a year or two) and I enjoy using it for several tricks. It's probably just me - my state of mind - but with "Chicago Opener" I always found it hard to justify putting the stranger back on the deck before the reveal. All eyes are on that card and it's the first moment of magic - it has to be smooth. What bothers me most - about how I percieve it - is the square-up, right before the turn-over. Squaring the top card perfectly just to turn it over a moment later - for my taste and character/feeling, it seems odd.
I sent Bob my non-DL version, and would be happy to have others give it a look. It is not an improvement - as the deck is somewhat "dirty" at the end (double stranger), but is fairly easy and uses only basic sleights. It was fun working out an alternative version, but I am sure it could be improved. |
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2017, carlyle wrote: It is odd. Yet, it's what most magicians do with the DL. Since you're putting the stranger card down on the table, there is no rational reason to put it back on the deck, is there? That has always bothered me, too. So, in the Chicago Opener -- and in Whit Haydn's Chicago Surprise version, which is what I usually perform -- I don't put it back on the deck, I put it directly on the table, using a toss change. Then, since I have their chosen card palmed, I produce it from a pocket, saying, "I knew you were going to choose the six of clubs, which is why I put the red-backed six of clubs in my pocket earlier." Whit Haydn taught me the toss change, which he learned from Eddie Fechter, and Fechter was amazing with it. The toss change is perfect for the Chicago Opener, or any trick where you put the stranger card down on the table immediately after a DL.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts
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Hi Dana,
Could you supply a reference for the Toss Change, please? And, everybody, I really like Carlyle's non-DL version. It's quite ingenious. Bob |
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Leo H Inner circle 1334 Posts
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Jamy Swiss wrote an interesting essay "Gaff vs. Skill" that was published in Antimony years ago. In that same publication, he also wrote an essay titled "A Dissertation on the Double Lift."
In a nutshell, Swiss believes in utilizing a gaff if it can only provide a service that cannot be duplicated by sleight of hand. As for the DL, his advice is to pick one and learn it well, but one DL cannot cover all the bases. The late master Frank Garcia wrote that he collected DLs and could do about 20 different kinds. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts
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Interesting references, Leo, thanks. Why can't one DL cover all the bases?
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2017, Bob G wrote: If you want to see it, Eddie Fechter does it in this video at 4:10-4:11 (one second), where he turns his hand from palm up to palm down. https://youtu.be/KaeTSXMHuZQ If you want to learn it, buy Pop Haydn's Chicago Surprise video for ten bucks. http://www.popsmagic.com/store/p37/Pop_H......DEO.html But if you are having trouble with a DL, the toss change will elude you. It takes a particular feel, and there is a particular knack to it. It has to be done just right.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Leo H Inner circle 1334 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2017, Bob G wrote: Because as Swiss wrote: "Naturalness does not occur in a vacuum; it is partly a reflection of style and character." There are numerous DLs in print/DVD and some are more suitable to a performing style than others. The Bert Allerton Snap-Over Lift done with the double held between your index and second finger is a bit fancy and is probably best used where a little style punches up the effect. Finger placements on the deck during the course of a particular trick, and/or other proceduress may dictate that one particular DL will look more natural than another. Years of studying and acquiring different DLs will begin to tell you which ones are best for the card effects you want to perform. |
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camron Regular user 160 Posts
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Just checked my library and Mr. Ryan's version of red hot mama does require a DL
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2017, camron wrote: Thanks, I thought so. Next question is how the original and the Ryan version differ?
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts
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Thanks, Dana and Leo.
Dana, from what you say I'm better off waiting on the Toss Change. Leo, that's an interesting point about how the one DL may flow better than another from what precedes it or follows it. |
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camron Regular user 160 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: same as far as I know. It's the way I 1st learned it... he says it's leech's trick... Justin |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2017, camron wrote: Okay cool, thanks. That's what I though....
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 22, 2017, tltq wrote: I used to just put them all on the bottom of the deck and proceed from there but now have gotten used to just placing them on the table and after showing the odd backed card, I put all of those cards on top of the pile on the table essentially cutting the deck in two steps. |
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tltq Regular user east coast 161 Posts
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I was going to post the same thing.
I came up with two in-the-hands sequences Number 1 Start with the odd-backed card on the bottom and its mate on top. After a card is selected, swing cut the top half to left hand. Have the selection placed on top of the left-hand packet. Place the balance of the deck on top of the selection. You could do few cuts that keep the odd-backed card in about the same position. Spread the cards until you get to the odd-backed card. Flip the cards above the odd-backed card face up and place them below the balance of the deck. Spread the rest of the cards until you get to the last face-down card (of course). Obtain a break below the top two cards as you close the spread. Do the double turnover. After the odd-backed card is placed on the table, spread to the face-up cards, filp them face down and place them under the rest of the cards. The card to be forced is second from top. It can be brought to the bottom with a double undercut. You can get it to the top by way of a slip cut. Number 2 Repeat the actions described in first paragraph above. Spread through the entire deck. As you close the spread, get a break under the card that is under the odd-backed card. Lift the cards above the odd-backed card with the right hand. With the left thumb, riffle down the corner of the left-hand cards about half way, then push down on the cards to leave a gap in the packet. Insert the right-hand cards into the gap. Push them in with the right second and third fingers at outer short end. The right thumb is on the inner short end of the deck (you are still holding the break with the left little finger). Keep the other cards still as you push the cards in. Do the double turnover. |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 22, 2017, Bob G wrote: I've learned this through watching David Regal tapes ("Tricks; More Tricks, series"). Using this method, he is able to show a double while holding the deck vertically to an audience of a couple of dozen people. (his 'Joker Works Overtime' is an offshoot of the CO trick, which he freely admits). Note that he can't let the double "land freely"...ie it has to be caught! On occasion lately, LL pubs has big sales, and you might be able to score one of his tapes for 10 bucks or so. Lynn |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts
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1. Thanks for the info, Lynn. Yes, I've noticed those sales -- too tempting by far!
2. Bobby Forbes and tilq: I couldn't tell from the context whether your comments about cuts, etc., were directed to me. If so, could you help me out, please, by explaining the advantage of your methods? Thanks -- Bob |
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Posted: Sep 23, 2017 09:43 am 
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