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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
Here is my take on the one shuffle stack from the GPS, although I won't be stacking cards from the top, but rather faro stack them in the middle using a in the hand riffle shuffle.
Of course it's just a bare demonstration of what it does, it can be implemented in a RRSRC scenario very easily. I have further observations and ideas for that kind of shuffle but I'm going to start with this simple video. Any comment is appreciated! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49q0ZfRHQCk&lc= |
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dapo24 New user 57 Posts |
Quite amazing. I'm still working on the table faro and this seems much harder to accomplish.
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Nicely done. How often do you miss on this?
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
Well, there are two types of mistakes:
-rhythm errors: if I get out of sync I mess up the whole shuffle ending up with a normal clean shuffle. That happens sometimes, realistically about 1 every 4 shuffle is not acceptable to me (even if some order is achieved, it is in irregular places in the deck), but when I get in good shape I usually get more good ones, like 1:6. -form error: where two cards stick together. That's the most frequent one, the cards weave as in a faro one by one, but some may riffle off in pair and create a form error in between. Often those are in the top or bottom portion, so they don't infere with the middle stacking. Statistically when I get a good shuffle I get realistically 3 to 6 pairs, with an average with 4 mistakes. Being just 4 cards off a perfect faro using a genuine riffle shuffle is fascinating to me, I didn't even though it was possible. The problem being, some of these form errors may get in the middle, and if just one ends up in the stack, no matter if it's the only paired cards mistake in the whole deck (an amazing result), it would ruin the procedure. I will post some progression of the whole shuffle, just to see some of the statistics! (the best I managed is just one card off a perfect shuffle, but that happened just one time, I never ended up doing a complete perfect one) An important thing I noted is that when I miss the rhythm, quite often I mess up "nicely": I get weird coupling like 2 and 1, or 2 and 2. That meaning I'm still getting a good rhythm, but messing the relative speed of the riffle. I've been working on it for about one year, to me it's a very difficult thing, but I find it very interesting |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There are side games here where that would be useful. The poker players here, those on the comp circuit, have been playing silly side games on planes as they travel together but for real money and the shuffling is rough and ready.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Would be interested in seeing your progress on this.
MacDougall described this perfect riffle shuffle technique in Card Mastery, describing its use for riffle stacking by shuffling the entire deck card for card. He said there would be an occasional miss with this technique in which case do a pull through and try again. His riffle stacking approach was unrealistic in my opinion but confining this shuffle to a portion of the deck is realistic. Forte demonstrated this technique using essentially the grip you are using in his Gambling Protection Series. Seems like you are mimicking that approach. |
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Javi Santos New user 5 Posts |
Isn't this the Joe Barry's shuffle?
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
The "Joe Barry's shuffle"... How can someone give his name to what is merely a in-the-hands Faro???
Can't Magicians stop marketing everything they do? |
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Javi Santos New user 5 Posts |
Hello Mr. Arnold:
I do not know if Joseph published it like that or not... Just the get ready for it looks exactly like the way he does it. That's why I named it like that. Maybe in the publication he recalls it exactly like you say, do not remember it right now. |
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
An in-hands faro does not impress me, but this does, even if you get it right 3/4 times. Well done, Marco.
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
@tommy: yes, I like how it is simple and direct, it really is a regular shuffle if it wasn't for a particular effort in "feeling" the cards with the thumbs as much as possible
@Cag: They main differences between the Forte one shuffle stack is that he's stacking the top cards, while I stack the middle part, where the speed is maximum. Also the grip is a bit deeper than Forte's but I found it's working even with a regular grip, meaning the major work is done by the "feel" and the rhythm. But at the same time the deeper grip increases the accuracy, so I'm sticking with it for now! @Javi Santos: I have to give credit to Barry mostly because he demonstrated that it is possibile to do it. Also I borrowed the grip he's using because I agree with what he says, (that it helps the stability for a faster shuffle), so that's another thing I'd have to thank him for. For the rest, that shuffle differs from his by the nature of the "airing" of the cards that I don't do. My motivation for the added action is completely different and I'm briefly bowing the deck for other two reasons. It's kind of working so at least what I'm thinking should be reasonable. @Arnold: are you referring the Marco's shuffle? LOL @Claudio: thank you! I'm sure that it will get better with practice, even if I've put a lot in it for now, it's still a complex move to close. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2017, Javi Santos wrote: Well, that is the nature of the new era of magician/hobbyist card table manipulation technique. It gets attached to a magician or performer or card table "expert." As I recall in another thread, after I wrote that professional hustlers don't attached their names to a technique or identify these moves more specifically, Jason England mentioned that is the way to identify different techniques nowadays by mentioning the primary performers of the move or someone who published the method first. Although I thought it as being idiotic at first, because I come from a different background and era, it actually makes sense as a way of identification nowadays. It is easier to say this is Forte's, or AMcD's, or England's, or Otiz's, Faro, or hop of whatever move being discussed and most can relate to the technique pretty quickly that way. While perhaps irritating to some who may have originated or used something extensively or maybe even do it better, the first to write or video or publish seems to get the credit and the move is associated with that person. Rightly or wrongly, that seems to be the way it is. However, I think there is a definite distinction in technique between a Faro Shuffle and a Perfect Riffle Shuffle. In my opinion, a perfect riffle shuffle should not be referred to as a Faro Shuffle even though some or all of the cards may be perfectly interlaced. The reason being the techniques are completely different, one using a butting like pressure to weave the cards and the other using a legitimate riffle shuffle technique. I have always referred to the interlacing of the cards using a legitimate riffle shuffle as a Perfect Riffle Shuffle. I believe even Expert Card Technique referred to the concept as a perfect riffle shuffle (which was published in 1944 or thereabouts), but I have never heard of it as being referred to as a Faro shuffle. But then again, "A rose by any other name is still a rose." (William Shakespeare) Just some thoughts for what they are worth. |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 317 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2017, Javi Santos wrote: Can't be, "Joe Barry" doesn't have a shuffle.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 317 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2017, Claudio wrote: Did you guys re-define "faro shuffle" while I was away? I mean, I get that the deck is accurately split, and that the cards are interwoven at will, but the video (to me anyway) shows an in-the-hands perfect riffle shuffle, not a faro shuffle.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2017, Mr. Bones wrote: I didn't re-define it as my post was partially to AMCD who qualified it as a mere in-the-hands faro. I was trying to contrast the level of difficulty between those two different shuffles. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Inn my opinion there is a vast difference in skill level between an in the hands faro shuffle and a Perfect Riffle Shuffle. In fact, the more cards you attempt to control with a perfect riffle shuffle shuffle the more difficult it becomes. Not so with the faro shuffle.
Try to control all 52 cards consistently with the perfect riffle shuffle and it becomes almost impossible. Fortunately for us mortals, controlling all 52 is really not necessary. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
To add to my multiple posts about the Perfect Riffle shuffle on this thread, we did have a video demo of a full deck 52 cards perfect riffle shuffle on this BB. I don't have the time or inclination to search for it but I think it may have been performed by Joe Barry as referenced above.
I would have to reiterate that this takes considerable skill to do with any degree of consistency, the difficulty level if far greater than faro shuffle mastery, either in the hands or against the table, and I doubt that there are even a of handful of card table manipulators that have mastered this, if that many. In Expert Card Technique, Hugard and Braue mention that only those that aspire to the heights of virtuosity with a deck of cards have mastered this shuffle and even they can only achieve prefect results perhaps 4 out of 5 times. This was covered at length elsewhere on this forum. The only problem, and it is really no problem at all, is the "lock grip" look that one must use. Of course, one has to lock the card securely to do this shuffle and there is probably no way around that, so I am just nit picking here. Most observers would notice nothing unusual at all. As a teenager, after reading about and practicing the method in Card Mastery for full deck perfect riffle shuffle control, I decided it was almost impossible to achieve and not worth the effort. Besides my parents were always after me to get on the Steinway and practice Beethoven, Liszt and other such notable. Learning card table moves, and gambling in general, was really frowned upon in my family, at least back in the day. By the way, Hugard's and Braue's simulated perfect riffle shuffle achieved the results rather nicely, was far easier to do, more certain, and I used one of those methods shown for years, both for partials and full deck control. It worked great. Guys, I hate to tell you this but it has all been done before...much of this and more, before you were born. Keep on truckin.' |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
To add to the above:
...but it is nice to see a new generation rediscover many moves and techniques and actually improve upon them in many instances. |
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
@Bones: to avoid confusion I even thought about it when posting the video, and named it "in the hands riffle faro stacking", referring to it as a faro stacking, done in the hands.. with a riffle!
I am curious to see it performed by mr. Barry himself since I've heard he's quite good at it. Also it'll be interesting to know how many physical factors like edge shape and cut or card flexibility come into place in this shuffle. For example I've tried with plastic and it's way harder to get a firm and smooth grip on the edges to release them steadily, but I know I have a bad cut deck (even if small irregularity, I cannot leave out the possibility), so I'll have to get another one to come to a conclusion. PS: I'm pretty sure everyone here know what a faro looks like, so I am confident there will be no such silly debates |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2017, MarcoLostSomething wrote: I do believe in some of our previous discussions of faros or perfect riffle shuffling we were given a link to Barry doing a perfect riffle shuffle. At the very least we did have a link of someone doing this shuffle and he did it quite well and for the entire deck as I recall. |
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