The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Looking for a CSB routine (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
inigmntoya
View Profile
Inner circle
DC area native, now in Atlanta
1822 Posts

Profile of inigmntoya
Nice! And quite different from the usual presentations.

Quote:
On Oct 25, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I was talking to Ben Salinas not long ago about CSB routines and he turned me on to this little gem. I really like it.
https://www.artofmagic.com/products/the-atomic-coin
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
Quote:
On Nov 3, 2017, inigmntoya wrote:
Nice! And quite different from the usual presentations.

Quote:
On Oct 25, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I was talking to Ben Salinas not long ago about CSB routines and he turned me on to this little gem. I really like it.
https://www.artofmagic.com/products/the-atomic-coin


Thanks to both of you
Saw that, and I agree that it is an interesting and fun routine and was definitely on my short list.
I just started working on the Cody Fisher routine. It seems like a good fit for me.
J-Mac
View Profile
Inner circle
Ridley Park, PA
5218 Posts

Profile of J-Mac
The Atomic Coin looks a bit like Jeremy Pei's Wild CSB which is on his Ultimate CSB Magic DVD. (Mentioned above by Dave Gripenwaldt)

Jim
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
Follow-up
Since I couldn’t afford all of the DVDs and books to research the many routines suggested, I relied on watching the performances on YouTube. I came to the conclusion that I would learn Doc Eason’s routine. What I like most about it is that it has a segment done in the spectator’s hand.

But, the more I did it, the more I rehearsed it, the less sense the extraction move appeared to me. I can’t unders why I would but a coin in my own fist, or my spectator’s fist, only to fish it out again. There’s got to be a more natural way. No problem in my own fist, but I’m still working on it for the spectator.
Placing the coin on the back of my hand when working behind a table is also a problem for me. Unless I need the elevation, but then again, I would normally just hold the coin in my fingers if I needed to show it.

So, that’s where I am. Your suggestions would be most welcome.
inigmntoya
View Profile
Inner circle
DC area native, now in Atlanta
1822 Posts

Profile of inigmntoya
I wouldn't worry too much about the motivation for putting the coins in your fist only to fish one out. Doc's routine (and Bob Sheets' before it) are time tested classics that simply work.
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
7949 Posts

Profile of funsway
I already offered my routine. It does not have the problem you address and has other unique moves too.

You may not wish to perform it as described, but might learn something you can use.

but, I also agree with ingmtoya. Don't ponder on what a magician in the audience might question. Focus on what story they will tell grandkids when they get home.

If the retake does bother you, consider tossing in a line like, "Yup, it's still warm enough." Then the observer can muse on why magic produces heat and not on your fingers.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, funsway wrote:
I already offered my routine. It does not have the problem you address and has other unique moves too.

You may not wish to perform it as described, but might learn something you can use.

but, I also agree with ingmtoya. Don't ponder on what a magician in the audience might question. Focus on what story they will tell grandkids when they get home.

If the retake does bother you, consider tossing in a line like, "Yup, it's still warm enough." Then the observer can muse on why magic produces heat and not on your fingers.

It’s not like me to pass up an invitation like that. I humbly apologize. If it’s not too late, and the offer is still good, I would love to have it.
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
I really don’t concern myself with what other magicians think. I have a habit of dissecting routines that I work on, trying to eliminate any moves that seem awkward or superfluous to me, and keep asking myself why I’m doing what I’m doing, in this case, I’m putting a coin in a hand, to take the same coin out of the hand. Why? There has to be other ways to do it. Why not just hold it out from the beginning, or request that the spectator’s openness their hand, and just remove it .... unless of course you have another motive.
tonsofquestions
View Profile
Special user
973 Posts

Profile of tonsofquestions
In general, I agree that "because other magicians have been doing it this way" isn't the end-all and be-all of excuses - it doesn't mean that a better way isn't possible.

That said, if many have had the experience that it works, it does seem like it would suggest the motivation is sound. There are also large number of routines that have this kind of extraction from a spectator's hand. While I agree it's not 100% as I would like, it does very visually have the spectator certain that all the coins are in their hand before you remove a "random" one. Which is the goal in this situation. It flies by all spectators, just as the time-misdirected false (card) cut does. Otherwise, how would you go about removing a coin from their hand, once in it?

I also confess I'm a little worried that this is going to turn into a similar conversation around whether or not the wand-under-the-arm move is "motivated". It's fine if you don't like the move, but that doesn't mean that other people can't think that it is.
Matthew Crabtree
View Profile
Special user
551 Posts

Profile of Matthew Crabtree
Quote:
On Feb 2, 2018, jakeg wrote:
I really don’t concern myself with what other magicians think. I have a habit of dissecting routines that I work on, trying to eliminate any moves that seem awkward or superfluous to me, and keep asking myself why I’m doing what I’m doing, in this case, I’m putting a coin in a hand, to take the same coin out of the hand. Why? There has to be other ways to do it. Why not just hold it out from the beginning, or request that the spectator’s openness their hand, and just remove it .... unless of course you have another motive.


Doc Eason eliminated the putting it in just to take it out.
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
The move is not one that a spectator might pick up on, but I feel that magic should just naturally happen by itself. The audience, Lin theory should never know what or when I’m doing my chicanery.

“Better things for better living through chicanery “ ..... Rege Cordic
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
7949 Posts

Profile of funsway
With any effect involving something magic happening in a spectator's hand there are several subscripts involved:
(effect being the combined skeleton, flash and clothing of a presentation that you desire the observers to perceive)

* the selection of the Volunteer Asssitant and possible "hand training" for the planned demonstration

* the selection of a particular effect based on a volunteer's cooperation

* what the VA sees, feels and anticipates

* the role of the VA as witness for the rest of the audience

* the impact of any verbal script on the Va and audience general. Some words are meant to control/guide the VA's actions,
others to guide the audience's anticipation and memory.

Thus, the importance of the move you are describing, and its possible "other than natural tipping of method fear" is different for the VA and audience general.
The audience perceptions will be influenced by the reactions of the VA than by how you handle the coin. They will remember what you told them happen
rather than what actually occurred. If the VA communicates astonishment at the results, the other observers will ignore any suspicious actions leading up to the event.
Since they wish to share the astonishment over things they cannot see very well, they will adapt their memory to justify the emotion. As the VA is the hero
and the center of attention, they will adapt memory or "never tell" of any suspicions.

The answer may be to only give this presentation when you have a VA who will provide the desired response/reaction. It is when you attempt to mold the VA to a planned effect
that there is a possible need to use "guaranteed safe" moves. Occasionally you will have the "perfect VA" who will confirm anything you say and mpve only as directed and show astonishment
regardless of the surprise or suspicions. That is the time to perform the special effect you have carried in pocket for ten years.

Kudos jakeg for wanting to improve presentations to appear more natural or simpler. But technical simplicity is not the same as "memory without confusion." Making a trick "better"
does not necessarily make it "more entertaining." Having said that, your confidence, or lack there of, will influence what the audience perceives and remembers. If this particular move
makes you uncomfortable then don't do it. Learning VA management may be easier than mastering a new sleight.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
Funsway - loved your post and your thinking. I read it over a second time and felt that it was worth the whole thread. Thank you.

When I see something that seems askew to me, I always ask why. For example, why would I place the coin on the back of my hand. Obviously to give it height. Then I ask if my audience was seated around my table, would I change it.
Unfortunately I don’t have an opportunity to perform much any more. Even though I offered to get a guide dog to sit in the passenger seat of my car, they still won’t give me my drivers license back.
countrymaven
View Profile
Elite user
452 Posts

Profile of countrymaven
HI just some simple observations about a CSB routine.
First, you don't want a routine that overuses the gimmick. Yes, like with anything in magic, if you do something too many times, you are at risk of making something too obvious. What is great about the CSB gimmick is that a transposition is very clear with this to a spectator . with a simple copper silver transpo, sometimes the spectator can forget where each coin was. Much easier to have them remember the location of these coins because of how different they are.

This CSB gimmick makes the ultimate clean coin transposition, in my mind. seeing two coins that are colorful change to a silver is truly magical.
Andy Young
View Profile
Special user
Jersey Shore, PA
664 Posts

Profile of Andy Young
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
HI just some simple observations about a CSB routine.
First, you don't want a routine that overuses the gimmick. Yes, like with anything in magic, if you do something too many times, you are at risk of making something too obvious. What is great about the CSB gimmick is that a transposition is very clear with this to a spectator . with a simple copper silver transpo, sometimes the spectator can forget where each coin was. Much easier to have them remember the location of these coins because of how different they are.

This CSB gimmick makes the ultimate clean coin transposition, in my mind. seeing two coins that are colorful change to a silver is truly magical.



I'm not sure that it is easier to remember then a copper silver transposition.

I prefer a 2 copper one silver to make it clearer in effect.
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, Andy Young wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
HI just some simple observations about a CSB routine.
First, you don't want a routine that overuses the gimmick. Yes, like with anything in magic, if you do something too many times, you are at risk of making something too obvious. What is great about the CSB gimmick is that a transposition is very clear with this to a spectator . with a simple copper silver transpo, sometimes the spectator can forget where each coin was. Much easier to have them remember the location of these coins because of how different they are.

This CSB gimmick makes the ultimate clean coin transposition, in my mind. seeing two coins that are colorful change to a silver is truly magical.


Either way, it could be covered in the scripting by asking questions or making statements.
I'm not sure that it is easier to remember then a copper silver transposition.

I prefer a 2 copper one silver to make it clearer in effect.
tonsofquestions
View Profile
Special user
973 Posts

Profile of tonsofquestions
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, jakeg wrote:
When I see something that seems askew to me, I always ask why. For example, why would I place the coin on the back of my hand. Obviously to give it height. Then I ask if my audience was seated around my table, would I change it.


It's funny that you use that as an example. I don't find that at all to be an "obvious" or natural seeming action in most contexts. But if you're happy with it, then feel free!
Danwseers
View Profile
New user
77 Posts

Profile of Danwseers
I would guess someone not familiar with magic tricks would analyze that movement as the magician put the coin on the back of their hand to display/showcase it. I seriously doubt they would question why it was first placed in the hand only to be removed. Simply, only magicians labor over comparing “natural” movements vs “unnatural”. That said, the observation is akin to the vanish of a coin by transferring it from one hand to the other. Spectators are along for the ride, while the magician is spooling reality, their brain is likely in a pattern of acceptance “because it is so.” Some interesting alternative movements (maybe/maybe not applicable to CSB) can be found in Benjamin Earl’s Real Coin Magic.
Robert M
View Profile
Inner circle
2570 Posts

Profile of Robert M
Quote:
On Oct 29, 2017, inigmntoya wrote:
Triple Transpo from Bob Sheets' Bob Does Hospitality DVD, Volume 2.
He also goes over it in his Penguin Magic lecture.
No going to the pockets, spectators get involved, ends clean.


I second this. I use Connie Hayden's CCS routine, which is similar, only with the CSB set. Pete Biro explains it in Joe Porper's Poker Chip Surprise routine.

No going to the pockets and you dump the coins into the spectator's hands at the end.

It does require a Himber Style coin purse.

Robert
jakeg
View Profile
Inner circle
1713 Posts

Profile of jakeg
Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, tonsofquestions wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, jakeg wrote:
When I see something that seems askew to me, I always ask why. For example, why would I place the coin on the back of my hand. Obviously to give it height. Then I ask if my audience was seated around my table, would I change it.


It's funny that you use that as an example. I don't find that at all to be an "obvious" or natural seeming action in most contexts. But if you're happy with it, then feel free!


I was using that as an example of a movement that I find no reason for, and un-natural. Why would place something on the back of my hand instead of my palms, my fingertips or on the table. Using the back of the hand in this case, is not necessary to accomplish any move.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Looking for a CSB routine (10 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2018 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.17 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL