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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
Hi, I might be performing in a magic competition in a few weeks. I'm not sure (I have to wait to find out for sure if I can sign up, it's the same one Café member Kannible will be performing in). There will be people of all ages and the routine has to be 8-10 minutes. I think I am going to do a silent act with music in the background. So far my act starts with a card manipulation routine.
Shoot four cards in air and catch in a bucket. Shoot one card behind back and catch in bucket, then shoot another card in front of self and catch in hat, then behind back, in front of self, and behind back again. Go into diminishing cards routine (As taught in Jeff McBrides AOCM 3). When putting away last cards, palm 4 and do four card squeeze production. When putting last card in bucket, shoot card into air and catch in bucket. So far I am happy with this routine (although the diminishing cards routine I don't think is very convincing, though it is very flourishy and can look impressive). The problem is that this routine only lasts about 2 minutes, and I need 8-10. Any advice or suggestions. Thanks. BTW: I'm not 100% sure whether or not I will be competing in the act, but I need to prepare as soon as possible in any case. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Work up an 8 minute act, but don't try to compete with it for at least a year.
You don't plan on competing this year do you?
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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-The Scot- Special user 726 Posts |
What will it take for people to realise manipulation acts take more than a 'few weeks' to even plan, never mind make and perfect for a competition. All that happens is we see bad manipulators on stage.
Also, we can't make an act for you. What we can do, is compare the act with your performance persona and suggest how you could improve it. Take Pete's advice, practise 1 yr minimum! |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I want to simply ask you WHY?? Why shoot cards in the air? Why produce cards over and over and vanish them multiple ways? This becomes so redundant to an audience.
If your going to do a manipulation act, then I reccomend giving the audience a lot more. The act must be more then just a showing of pure skill alone. I may have to repost an article I wrote here a while back on how to add creativity to any act. I think it might explain where I am coming from much better. My big question to you is: WHY! This might seem a bit strange but let me go on now to tell you about what I am referring to. To a magician, we are fascinated with cards and flourishes and vanishes and anything related to magic. It amazes us by the technique and the method and skill involved in doing the executions of the routines. This alone keeps us striving to learn more and peaks our interest and curiosity. However, this is often NOT the case with a lay audience. A lay audience does not see magic in the same way we do. They do not understand the techniques and skills involved and nor should they if what we are doing is supposed to be magical. With this in mind, the audience often will say to themselves... "WHY". Why is this magician doing the same thing over and over again? Why? Because the magician knows he is doing different vanishes and each one is slightly unique. However the audience only knows that the card vanishes, the card returned and now your doing it again. He knows that the rings link and unlink and then your doing it again as well. This is why any magical routine for any audience can be really tough if you really think about it. You do not want your audience ever going "Why" at any time in the routine. So how do you work around this problem of boring your audience to tears? Well that is where research and creativity comes into the picture. It gets back to the point that in any magical routine or act you must give the audience "more". It is not good enough to simply show a routine of pure skill alone doing moves that appear the same to any audience. So how do you give your audience more? Well you can give them more through the use of themes, character, style, pacing, transition effects and emotional response to just name a few. Let me go on to talk very briefly about each of these I just mentioned. Each could be an article all in itself but I will just give you my tips on each one for now in hopes you can grasp what I am referring to. - Themes: You can give more to your audience in any magic act or routine if you simply add in a theme to the act you are doing. This can be a generalized theme in regards to the objects all relating, or the act itself can be themed around a storyline. In this way you are performing a small 8 min play that just so happens to have magic in it. The audience can relate to the themed objects or the story and get more involved with your act and with you. - Character: Every act you do should have a strong character present on stage. The audience needs to be able to connect with this character. If you can connect the audience with you, then they become more attached to you and can relate to what you are doing on stage. Ask yourself if your character is suave, comical, athletic, hip, sad, down on his luck. Each of these can become a strong character that can be conveyed in your stage movement and even your music. - Style: With style, I mean the way you move on stage and the way you conduct and hold yourself throughout the routine. It is something that must be learned over time. It is those little things that make a huge difference to an audience liking you or not. It can be the way you pause at the right moment and look at the audience and wink right before a big production. It could be the way you move and look and smile at the audience as if saying thank you without moving your mouth at all. - Pacing: The way you pace and time your routine can make a world of difference to an audience. In many acts, the audience is being barraged with too much visual input. They cannot follow it all the time and so start shutting them down from even watching what it is you are doing. You must pace your act and place in it pauses that give the audience a chance to catch up, breathe a bit and give them a chance to applaud you before going into the next sequence. - Transition effects: These are the simple things you can place into your act that changes it up a bit and ads so called "spice" to the act. It gives your audience something more to watch and breaks up the act from being too repetitive. For example: You could be doing a billiard ball act. You do a few vanishes and produce the ball. The ball gets tossed up and as you catch it turns into a white silk. You do a knots off silk effect and the not becomes the ball again. In this way the ball to silk becomes a transition effect that gives your audience something more to be interested in. - Emotional Response: This is a HUGE one and can work so wonderful if done well. If done right it can make your audience connect with you long after you have left the stage. It is causing an emotional response in your audiences by allowing them to connect and relate to your character and the predicament presented on the stage. It can also work closely in with the theme you are presenting. It can even be where you change the outcome and the frustration and silliness on to yourself and your own character instead of on the child your doing the effect with. Instead of using the child for laughs, you change it so the magic works for him or her but never for you. Every person in your audience has experienced something in common. What are common to us all are emotions. We have all felt fear, love, confusion and happiness. These are common to every person know matter who you are performing for. So if you can connect with them on one or more of these emotions, you can get that audience member to really relate to you because they are remembering a similar situation when they too had that exact same emotion or situation happen to them. They can relate. For example, a stage act could be all about this guy at night who is just trying to reach a bus to get home. It is late and he misses his bus and the entire world seems to be passing him buy. He sits on a bench to wait for the next bus and turns on his radio. He drifts off to sleep only to awake moments later. He realizes that magic starts happening to him even though he does not know exactly why it is. Though the magic that happens to him it causes him to smile and to realize that life is full of wonder even if we may not always se it. Now this is just a very vague example but you can see how the entire act could be a routine but now you are relating to them a story of a very well defined character with a well-defined theme. You give them an emotional response to the act because most can relate to being in a similar situation in their own life. In this way they relate better to what you are doing on stage. Now these ideas are not meant to be the bible for a great act by any means. They are simply some of my own understandings on what I have experienced that has really worked not only for myself but to other acts that have really "made it." They are meant only to be reviewed and given some thought to. Take even one thing from them and I think you will see your act or routine reaching your audiences in a whole different light. So I simply ask you to ask yourself.. WHY! Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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-The Scot- Special user 726 Posts |
What a wonderul post Kyle! Just reminds us how great it is to have you at hand.
Every word is true! |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Thanks Kevin,
I wrote this a while back but I felt it would be good to post it again as it really does have a lot to do with the topic at hand. If your going to compete and put an act together, you really can take these ideas and add more "layers" to your act that can get people excited about what they are watching. An audience needs more then just skill alone. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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maylor Loyal user england 231 Posts |
Good stuff!
Combine your magic with other interests you have. Just play around, see what you come up with. You'll be surprised with just how original, innovative and entertaining you can be! Don't go out and perform an act that isn't ready or hasn't been given enough preperation. Truw, it is good to have a go - but whilst having a go - make sure you do yourself justice! |
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-The Scot- Special user 726 Posts |
Quote:
make sure you do yourself justice! ... and justice to whose material you are using! |
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
Thanks for the advice Kyle. But when you say why do what I am doing, why make billiard balls appear? Why make a silk turn into a dove? Why make a card come to the top of the deck. The same can be said about all magic, why do any effect? The reason I wanted to open with a card manipulation act is because most (not all) of stage magic is 99.99999% presentation and .00001% skill and technique. I don't think the audience will vote for someone who they don't think has skill so I wanted to open with something that demonstrates skill. I don't know what I would do after that but I am working on my act 6-8 hours a day minimum. If I still can't put an act together in time, I just won't do it. I want to see now if I have enough time to put it together because I haven't been signed up yet, so there is still time to change my mind. If I have to, I won't do it but I am working as hard as possible to create a good routine. I would really like to do it as everyone there gets $50 win or lose. The winner moves on to the next show and gets another $50. Now I'm not going to go on with a half baked act just to get $50 but I would still like to make an attempt. Thanks again for your help.
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I understand you but I think your not quite getting what I am referring to. I am NOT saying that an act should be all presentation with no importance on skill. What I am saying is that an act should be MORE then just skill alone.
Magic is a skillful art and what you do you must do well. That is natural and has to happen. The problem is that some magicians ONLY do skill in an act. This is ok but you can give your audience so much more to get excited about. If your act is only skill alone, then that is all you are relying on to carry you. Instead, you can add what I call "layers" to an act. These layers are added on top of the skill to make for a better act overall. It is almost like a pizza. Sure a pizza is good plain, but it cantaste so much better with toppings that you and others like as well. In this analogy, your act of skill alone is the plain pizza. Sure it is good and it works, but it can be so much better with the other toppings. The other toppings consist of some of the items I referred to above. I hope this might make better sense to you and others. If I am not explaining myself well enough, please just let me know. Keep in mind you can demonstrate skill and still give your audience more as well. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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zombieboy Special user Connecticut, USA 889 Posts |
An amusing quote comes to mind after hearing all of this:
"Why should magic have meaning? It sounds like magic is going through a mid-life crisis. Magic should get a fast car and a hot girlfriend." |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Well it is almost the same reason why magic is not considered or thought of as a higher art form like ballet or opera or dance etc. It should be, but it is not. I think a reason for this is that a lot of people do not and don't want to put forth the effort to make their magic as entertaining to their audiences as it should be. Just my take on it.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Kyle's lines should be read and re-read... great stuff.
Remember, fun seekers, magic is a PERFORMING ART. You must be a likeable performer first. Style, confidence, skill to the point you can do the material without thinking of the technique.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Hi ShaneW,
I think it is great you are considering to compet in the contest. It will hopefully be a learning experience in your life. I must agree with much that has been said thus far. I would like you to consider who you will be judged by in this contest. Other posts said the audience will judge the acts, not magicians. I seen Lance Burton win his Gold Metal, Believe it or Not Laymen voted him the Gold. The Magicians on the panel voted him not to win. This was the 1st year of to have 2 laymen in the judging. They found out they could swing the vote. So now they only have 1 layman on the panel. He would have never been the success he is today if it were not for layman feeling they were entertained and took other things into consideration. Lance did not do one new trick in his winning act. I could all be taken right out of magic books. By the way, it is not the act seen on the Carson show a year later, this was drasticly different. Laymen do not care about skill, they only know when they have been entertained. This is the all important key to this contest. Make them laugh and feel they had fun watching you and you will win. If you have any stage magic that you like and have used in a show of your own, then do these in you act. Do what you experienced that is good magic or tricks. I could list a dozen tricks, but these are just classics that have been around for centuries. I then comes to your routine, personality, and presentation of the trick. I think this may be something you should think on: It is not what you do, but how you do it! It sounds a little like, you are were all of us has been at one time or another. Experiencing a little panic as to what to do because you would like to win. Just have confidence in your magic you already have experience with. Good Luck. |
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
Thanks for the advice, I will take that into consideration. The only problem is, while I have some parlor/stage magic, I specialize in close up. I have only ever done two shows that aren't close up, one at a library, and the other for a birthday party. This is different, it will be for around 200 people, and may be televised since it is a gameshow that has been on for 8 years in Australia and will be going on here in Vegas for at least 5 months. Most of the magic that I could do other than close up is parlor sized magic, but I don't know what to do for stage. I understand what you mean about entertaining, but I can't entertain 200 people with a deck of cards. I have linking rings but they are ninja ring size, do you think they would work for this show? I was also thinking about learning Tabary's rope routine, but I can't learn from his dvd. I have it up to the point where he makes the two loops and the two knots, but I still don't understand how he does the knot thing. In his dvd all he says is, "You take the rope ear, and put it ear, then you grab it ear, and pull it through ear."
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Pete:
Many thanks my friend. I hope these thoughts about creativity help others to at least rethink the way they perform their magic. Our audiences deserve more from us then what we often give them. Shane: The ideas I mentioned above can apply to close-up just asw ell as the stage. They are just universal ideas for how to rethink how your presenting your magic. If you take these general ideas, they can be applied to any form of magic whether it be strolling. mentalism etc. In fact, I am so sure these ideas work that I am willing to take you through a thought process with me. If you give me an idea of what you think you might do, I will walk you and others through the process I mentioned above. I think if I do this, you will see what I mean and how it works and gain better insight into this. If your intersted, just post here your general idea and we can get started. It might be very beneficial to others as well and it would be my pleasure. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
I will post again when I have more of an idea what to do. All I know now is that I am thinking of doing a silent act with music in the background. Do you think using the Circle Square Deception as an opener would be good? I was thinking of starting with Circle Square Deception to introduce the props and/or as a way to transition between effects. I am still thinking of ideas and will post them when I am more sure what I am going to do. Thanks for the help.
Shane |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Let me give you something to think about. Jack Pyle a well known Chicago Magician would entertain a Coliseum full with nothing more then a deck of cards.
Again it is not what you do but how you do it. Some parlor tricks work great for large audiences. Professor Nitemare is one I can think of off the top, another is Torn and Restored Newspaper. If you think you can put together a silent manipulation act in a few weeks, then you really are a magician. That is a good trick in itself. The rope video and your experience is the reason I do not like learning from this media. If the show is for television, why can't you do close-up magic. The camera will be able to shoot it just fine. Does it have to be a Stand-up Stage performance? |
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
It is a stage performance. It is a game show where there will be two comedians competing against each other and two magicians against each other. The audience thinks they are competing for money but really the magicians get $50 win or lose. The winner (Or the person the manager likes more) gets another $50 and moves on to the show the next day or next week. The magician will perform in front of an audience and the AUDIENCE decides who they like more. So it is important for me to do magic that entertains the audience rather than the camera man. I don't know if I will have enough time to prepare but before I say no, I am going to try. Even if I can't, the show runs for 5 months so I may be able to join in after a few months if I can't get the act together in time. So yes, it does need to be stand up.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Well, you have all you need to know how to do a great job. I wish you all the successs.
Practice, rehearse, practice, rehearse. Good Luck! |
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