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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Mental Dice by Marc Antoine (176 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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videoman
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First of all, this is different enough IMO from any of PM's products that it deserves to be released to the magic market. Craig's stellar reputation is established enough that I doubt he is losing any sleep over this.

Secondly, I don't understand the negative tone this is getting as far as price is concerned. Electronic devices are always expensive and this one seems to be on the low end considering what you get and compared to other similar items available.

But obviously this is an item that is geared towards 2 types of performers. First is the working pro, in which case the cost is not an issue if it is something they will use as stated by Jan Forster. The second is hobbyists who have enough disposable income that again, price is not a concern.

If only used ocassionally and treated with care it may well last longer than 4 years and whether it will still be available when it comes time to replace it is a gamble you have to be willing to take, and can afford to take. Personally, this is not something I feel I would get my money's worth out of but I certainly wouldn't begrudge the creator for setting a price they feel it is worth and what the market will bear. A high price does offer a certain amount of exclusivity (and fewer YouTube exposures) which is always nice for those that buy the product.

Of course, my opinion is all based on the unit working reliably and lasting as long as promised. But that is true with any item you purchase whether it be magic, or a phone, car, etc.
MagicD48
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There's a lot of people complaining about plagiarism in here, but if Im reading this correctly, the entire concept already has a patent which is in public domain. How does this effect all of the current creators? Although the usage example of this object appears to be regarding board games, it is just an example.

https://www.google.com/patents/US6331145

Although it appears that this uses RFID on each side of the dice, maybe I'm wrong about that. The legal jergon is mind numbing.
JackMagic
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Quote:
On Jan 7, 2018, Robert M wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 6, 2018, Tarik Flash wrote:
RD one die last 10 years and is £40 to replace . Head and shoulders above it’s competitors imo Tarik 🙂


According to the Promystic web site, it's $475 to "upgrade" or replace your RD (after approximately 10 years).

I still can't imagine how you could use three colored RDs in a routine without a visual cue. It wouldn't be nearly as immediate anyway. But, if anyone can figure out a way to do it I'm sure Craig probably could.

Marc says the dice last 3-4 years and that's probably 3-4 years of constant use, I imagine.

Robert


Good Point and the fact he has not done it, even if possible cost would be at least $3000 !

another point that Tarik has ignored

Now let get back to Topic in Hand Mental Dice
itsmagic
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A lot of people saying Craig didn't care, but he is p*****o** about this release.
Ustaad
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I see that 2018 is going to see a lot of advancement in Die technology. Outdated technology will have no place in this arena and will be soon rooted out.

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
jaizon
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Quote:
On Jan 11, 2018, Ustaad wrote:
I see that 2018 is going to see a lot of advancement in Die technology. Outdated technology will have no place in this arena and will be soon rooted out.

Smile


Thus spoke Zarathustra.
Ustaad
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After the Blackpool convention I will decide whether to get either or both of the following:-

1. Mental Dice by Marc Antoine

2. EStooge's MystiCube Dice

I will Ignore the odd specific.

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2018, Dazz wrote:
There's a lot of people complaining about plagiarism in here, but if Im reading this correctly, the entire concept already has a patent which is in public domain. How does this effect all of the current creators? Although the usage example of this object appears to be regarding board games, it is just an example.

https://www.google.com/patents/US6331145

Although it appears that this uses RFID on each side of the dice, maybe I'm wrong about that. The legal jergon is mind numbing.


That patent wouldn't apply to something like RD/MD. The main reason would be the use. That patent makes no mention and protection for other applications of the invention. So the applications for the invention in the patent relegates the use for board games and computer games (so that for example, it can record rolls of a die and tally it up for the player rather than having the player tally it up on their own). For our use it is completely outside of the context of using it for the purpose of computer and board games, or games in general (even if your presentation is that you will play a little game with your spec, the actual purpose and role of the invention for our purposes would not be that of using it in the context of a game).
Gaz Lawrence
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There is no patent for Rd there was a wooden version that Mark Mason sold prior to RD anyway . Patents in magic are in morals only , certainly dealers have none anyway and they are often the biggest names in magic and get away with murder Tarik 🙂
Mysterious Mike
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Quote:
On Jan 11, 2018, Ustaad wrote:
I see that 2018 is going to see a lot of advancement in Die technology. Outdated technology will have no place in this arena and will be soon rooted out.

Smile


Just curious, what do you consider outdated? RD?
The performance is what really makes it all worth while.
Saturn UK
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On the subject of this release the first batch of stock has been shipped to us and all orders will go out on Monday.

The bad news is we are sold out so we are waiting for the 2nd batch date to be confirmed.
www.saturnmagic.co.uk

#theshopwithstock Pleased to be different!

FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/saturnmagic.co.uk
Ustaad
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Question

Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, Mysterious Mike wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 11, 2018, Ustaad wrote:

I see that 2018 is going to see a lot of advancement in Die technology. Outdated technology will have no place in this arena and will be soon rooted out.


Just curious, what do you consider outdated? RD?


Answer

Quote:
On Jan 12, 2018, Tarik Flash wrote:

. . . there was a wooden version that Mark Mason sold prior to RD . . .


Hope that satisfies your curiosity. Smile

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
elimagic
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Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, Ustaad wrote:
Question

Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, Mysterious Mike wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 11, 2018, Ustaad wrote:

I see that 2018 is going to see a lot of advancement in Die technology. Outdated technology will have no place in this arena and will be soon rooted out.


Just curious, what do you consider outdated? RD?




Answer

Quote:
On Jan 12, 2018, Tarik Flash wrote:

. . . there was a wooden version that Mark Mason sold prior to RD . . .


Hope that satisfies your curiosity. Smile

Smile


Ustaad Just a question for you. Have you actually used rdr at a real gig?
I just find it interesting that you find rdr outdated however it is the qualities of rdr that these recent release are trying so hard to emulate. (Rechargeanility, complete enclosed, normal looking dice, correct dice size, etc etc) the size of these recent releases aren’t anywhere close the rdr by the way....
if it is outdated, why the copies???

Back on topic. Please continue Smile
Gaz Lawrence
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RD cannot be emulated imho it’s absolutely perfect there is literally no room for any improvement not on my one at least Tarik 🙂
Ustaad
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Dear Elimagic,

I have seen, handled and played with all models and versions of ProMystic Dice. However I have never purchased any of ProMystic product nor do I find the need to do so as I build my own props to my need, taste and specifications that suits MY style of performance. I have nothing against ProMystic and their products. It is quite possible that my writing might sound so, but trust me I have nothing against ProMystic. Said that, I find any thread/post that refers to any new but similar prop, it immediately gets the stamp of 'Rip-Off' of ProMystic and then, as a result, the whole thread gets derailed &/or many legitimate posts get deleted. This I feel is certainly not in good taste and should not be done. Recently it has happened with one of my post (on the subject) but I am happy that the post got deleted soon (before I could request the Mods to do so) as I had disclosed something guarded by me and a few renowned Pros. It would be so nice if people penned their thoughts with good logic and reasoning.

Now coming to the point you raised. IMO no prop is outdated no matter how far back the prop was developed. However you will agree that, especially in electronics, the technology changes very quickly. New and advanced features are being constantly developed and added thus leaving behind the old. If that wouldn't happen the world would be a boring and a stagnant place. We must all learn to take advancement in the right spirit.

And now may I please quote:-

Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, elimagic wrote:

I just find it interesting that you find rdr outdated however it is the qualities of rdr that these recent release are trying so hard to emulate. (Rechargeanility, complete enclosed, normal looking dice, correct dice size, etc etc) the size of these recent releases aren’t anywhere close the rdr by the way....
if it is outdated, why the copies???


If that be so and if one is confidant of his product, there is no need to worry about other player’s similar product hitting the market. Everybody knows and understands where to put their money; what's good and what's not so good for them.

I will not get into any debate on this as this is a never ending story.

Back on topic please. Thank you and continue please . . . Smile

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
elimagic
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[quote]On Jan 13, 2018, Ustaad wrote:
Dear Elimagic, I have seen, handled and played with all models and versions of ProMystic Dice. However I have never purchased any of ProMystic product nor did I find the need to do so as I build my own props to my need, taste and specifications that suits MY style of performance. I have nothing against ProMystic and their products. It is quite possible that my writing might sound so, but certainly I have nothing against ProMystic. Said that, I find any thread/post that refers to any new but similar prop, it immediately gets the stamp of 'Rip-Off' of ProMystic and then, as a result, the whole thread gets derailed &/or many legitimate posts get deleted. This I feel is certainly not in good taste and should not be done. Recently it has happened with one of my post (on the subject) but I am happy that the post got deleted soon (before I could request the Mods to do so) as I had disclosed something guarded by me and a few renowned Pros. It would be so nice if people penned their thoughts with good logic and reasoning.

Now coming to the point you raised. IMO no prop is outdated no matter how far back the prop was developed. However you will agree that, especially in electronics, the technology changes very quickly. New and advanced features are being constantly developed and added thus leaving behind the old. If that wouldn't happen the world would be a boring and a stagnant place. We must all learn to take advancement in the right spirit.

And now may I please quote:-

Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, elimagic wrote:

I just find it interesting that you find rdr outdated however it is the qualities of rdr that these recent release are trying so hard to emulate. (Rechargeanility, complete enclosed, normal looking dice, correct dice size, etc etc) the size of these recent releases aren’t anywhere close the rdr by the way....
if it is outdated, why the copies???


If that be so and if one is confidant of his product, there is no need to worry about other player’s similar product hitting the market. Everybody knows and understands where to put their money; what's good and what's not so good for them.

I will not get into any debate on this as this is a never ending story.

Back on topic please. Thank you and continue please . . . Smile

Smile



This is the issue though. You state that if I feel that the product I use is superior(which I do) the. I have no need to worry. The problem is, is that i’m not worried about that! This is the point that is being missed by you and a few others in these threads. The problem is that because of the marketing of these similar products, the public perception of “all dice” is going to be hurt more and more. I would still have a problem with these other dice, mental dice and the others as I do feel like they are copying technology and techniques that took craig years if R&D to perfect and are just copying it. However, with that put aside, it is the marketing to the public, the exposure of these products within that marketing that is so damaging, not only to them but to the (in my opinion) superior products. That is what I and other hve to worry about. The exposure caused because of the release. Again, not attacking you at all! and I know we feel differently on many things however it is the exposure in the video ads that is what should be upsetting to everyone, users of rd, mental dice, estooge, etc etc.

Ps, when you say the phrase “Back on topic, continue please...those things.... it does come across as condescending. I don’t know if you intend it to be, but just so you know because i’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Ustaad
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Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, elimagic wrote:

. . . . it is the exposure in the video ads that is what should be upsetting to everyone, users of rd, mental dice, estooge, etc etc.


Yes, I am with you on this and I fully agree.

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
elimagic
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Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, Ustaad wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 13, 2018, elimagic wrote:

. . . . it is the exposure in the video ads that is what should be upsetting to everyone, users of rd, mental dice, estooge, etc etc.


I am with you on this and I fully agree.

Smile


Perfect. Let’s just focus on what we agree on and agree to disagree on the rest.

I wonder if Murphy’s would consider removing the ads if we all reached out and expressed our disapproval.
Ustaad
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On Jan 13, 2018, elimagic wrote:

Perfect. Let’s just focus on what we agree on and agree to disagree on the rest.

I wonder if Murphy’s would consider removing the ads if we all reached out and expressed our disapproval.


Hopefully Murphy's will take note of this and do the needful - sooner the better.

BTW, ProMystic has closely guarded it's products and continues to do so. Hope others learn and follow the example.

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
Mr. Bones
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It may be worth contemplating for a moment the fact that cheaters with varying degrees of technical sophistication have been gaffing dice "electronically" such that the uppermost number is known either in advance, or is known after the die has been handled - and those cheaters have been gaffing dice this way since electronic components became small enough to build into a die.

The "electronic" modification of dice can't be claimed by Anverdi, Craig, Marc, or anybody else for that matter - if it "belongs" to anybody, it belongs to the folks known as dice cheats.

Hand wringing about which magician owns the concept, exposure, etc is somewhat misplaced.

Some Asian manufacturers had released "electronic dice" for games like Sic Bo and Backgammon long before Anverdi or ProMystic had anything to market - and today, some of the dice products available from China for those same games are electronically sophisticated in a manner that is far in excess of anything that Craig or Marc are currently marketing.

Luck to all, but nobody "owns" the concept of gaffed dice, and recall that magicians have taken almost 100% of the concepts that they consider "dice magic" directly from the world of professional dice cheats.
Mr. Bones
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