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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Gimmicked effect for Newbie (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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warren
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Exposure is exposure my friend but there you go.
Scott Horn
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Where is the "exposure"??? Do you somehow think I'm making this gift to someone who will walk around with the intent of not performing, but just exposing the gimmick ?

I'm not telling him the method outright, the prop is being purchased, and he will have the accompanying instructions. He will perform it as intended and maintain the honor of non-disclosure ?
Scott Horn
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Oops... should have ended that last sentence with an exclamation point, not a question mark.
tonsofquestions
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Double Deception is something completely different. (It's also a lot more pricey.) I suspect he'll want some sleights with that - at least finger-palming a coin. So that might be too much. Sponge balls definitely do, as well.

I think warren's complaint of "exposure" (forgive me if I misread, here) is around exposing something "too good"/versatile, like Quiver. Better to leave that for people who can come up with something really incredible/unique, rather than just a purchased routine.

Sure, there's some element of showing someone a secret who doesn't really want to Thadevote time to the art, and might expose from poor performance, but there's nothing stopping someone from just buying stock items (like a S&S) off of Amazon, so it seems fine.

That said, I think he might have fun with a hot rod or simple paddle move trick - I'd put those in the similar "no sleights" category, yet aren't quite as self-working, particularly the former.

If you're particularly worried about him spending it, get a set that doesn't have local coins - e.g. a coin unique or UK set of S&S. I personally prefer the bigger coins for better visibility, but they're also a tad harder to conceal, which it sounds like he's unwilling to practice at all. You'd be the best judge.
warren
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Scott I'm just going by what you've said in the thread which is that basically you have a friend who is not a magician, that has no interest in learning sleight of hand etc but wants a few things to show some kids and their families whilst he's working please correct me if I'm wrong ?

If this is the case then in my opinion you most definiately should not be giving away excellent effects that many professionals use such as DD, Quiver, etc especially when this is someone that can't even be bothered to do some reasearch which lets face it is very easy in this day and age.

Only yesterday I was reading a thread where someone was showing a friend a video of a real magician performing 3 card monte and the friend hadn't a clue how it was done, so he then decided to perform 3 card monte himself for his friend possibly the next day and got busted after throwing the monte for the 3rd time in a row.

That example is the sad state of magic these days people performing magic poorly after next to no time practicing, he probably didn't think to use cards without boarders, he probably did the same move repeatably etc.

Sometimes you'll come across a thread and someone will say that they've been turned away when approaching a table to perform well its mainly down to them having wittnessed poorly performed magic in the past from people who just wanted to show their friends a few tricks.

If your friend is serious about learning magic and is willing to practise etc then that is completely different to someone who just wants to show some people a few things, there is a big big difference bewteen the two but from what you have said your friend falls into the latter so I would be very picky with what I would give away and limit my choices to something like a Svengali deck at most.
Scott Horn
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TonsOfQuestions, Warren. First off, mea culpa! I misstated Double Deception when I intended to say Coin Unique. To me, Scotch and Soda, Gin and Tonic, and Coin Unique are effectively the same gimmick. I know DD is far more "sophisticated" and absolutely is not free of some "handling" (i.e. sleight of hand). I apologize if my misstatement created the wrong understanding.

That said, and in context, I agree with your first point that there should be some alignment between performer and effect (including gimmick). I started a topic in Right or Wrong because I think this is an interesting discussion that is giving me something to ponder.

However, I take a little issue with Warren's second point. I didn't say, nor mean to imply, that my friend couldn't "be bothered" to practice. He loves magic but has neither the time or (frankly) the dexterity to do any manipulation. That's why I was looking for non-sleight / self working effects. I agree with your point about exposure through poorly performed magic, but that's a different topic altogether. My friend will honor the secret and will become competent, which is why I am looking to minimize the time and dexterity requirements. If I give him a video on the muscle pass it would sit in a drawer, if I give him Nickels to Dimes, he would do great with it.. but N2D doesn't fit what I am looking for.

I think Im going with some version of Scotch and Soda. I appreciate all the feedback. Please see my post in Right or Wrong if you'd like to continue this discussion
Dougini
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2017, warren wrote:
Only yesterday I was reading a thread where someone was showing a friend a video of a real magician performing 3 card Monte and the friend hadn't a clue how it was done, so he then decided to perform 3 card Monte himself for his friend possibly the next day and got busted after throwing the Monte for the 3rd time in a row.

That example is the sad state of magic these days people performing magic poorly after next to no time practicing, he probably didn't think to use cards without boarders, he probably did the same move repeatably etc.


Though that digresses a bit from the OP's intent, That is the down side of learning new Magic tricks. Ya gonna have that FAIL factor. It happens. Or worse, some twid looks it up on YouTube on their phone and exposes it. That can discourage ya! That happens a lot. It happened to me a few times! But the point Warren made about the person not wanting to bother practicing, or doing slightly advanced methods, at what point do we say NO? The good stuff today is used by professionals. To give an example, The Secret Servante. Here is where it gets dicey:

My friend is a "casual" magician. Knows virtually NO sleight of hand, and uses a couple standards like N2Ds and S&S. He just bought a Secret Servante, and got busted with it. "I guess I'm not as slick as I thought." He never will be. It was an idea to "clean up" a bit. Had he asked ME? I'd have discouraged it, and would have told him to just use his pockets. Marketing being what it is, he was SOLD on the use of the tool. Now a good tool was exposed, thankfully to just a few people. So Warrens point does not fall on deaf ears.

Good magic has been thrust into the public spotlight for YEARS. Case in point, D'Lites and Invisible Thread (think Helicopter Card). Malls everywhere had cards floating and Las Vegas had drunks with D'Lites! The argument is, that an ENTERTAINER can STILL delight (pun intended!) an audience! But these unintended breaches do not HELP the entertainer. One has to look for other ways. Other effects. Until THOSE get exposed, etc. On it goes, ad nauseum. Even the occasional magician/hobbyist is stymied at times by exposure! These people are not armed with OUTS like a pro.

I never thought Scotch and Soda was marketed to the public. Maybe that's why the secret has been kept so long.

Doug
warren
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Doug, that was pretty much my point, there are many as you put it casual magicians although I wouldn't actually call them magicians myself haha. However most proper magicians take the time to put in the proper practice so rarely get busted even if an effect is new, where as these as you call them casual magicians usually can't be bothered to put the practice time in and secondly lack presentation skills which then ends up being challenge magic which leads to them getting busted.

If someone is serious then they don't mind putting in the practice and likewise if they are serious but lack the time to put in practice then surely they would be willing to wait until they do have time if they really are serious.

Going back to practice time, you would be surprised just how much practice you can do if your serious for example its a simple matter to put a coin into classic p**m and go about your daily business whilst trying to keep it there.
It's a simple matter to sit with a deck of cards in hand and practice a particular technique whilst watching TV etc.

I can remember many years ago when I had to use a bus to get to work I used to practice my coin roll with the idea that if I can do it on a moving bus then after that it would be easy.

How many times do we find ourselves with a few minutes to spare whilst waiting for something whether it be in a queue at the doctors, dentists,waiting for a customer etc the list goes on.

The point being if you are really serious about something you simply make the time and if your not willing to make the effort then I for one am certainly not about to give away something that means so much to me.

I made a comment on the new thread started by the OP what I would be willing to do for someone who just wants to be able to show a few things but isn't serious so I won't repeat it here.

Some of my comments can obviously be taken with a pinch of salt though as I'm old school which means in my day there was no google, youtube etc you had to go out of your way to learn anything, I'm a member of a magic club which means I took an oath never to knowingly expose magic etc and finally I also get paid to perform so don't take kindly to effects that put food on the table being given away freely.
J-Mac
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Scott, consider Sticky Situation by Andy Leviss and performed by Rick Lax. It's restoring a stick of gum from a chewed wad to a full unchewed stick, and then again from that to a wrapped stick of gum. It's quick, uses a common item (there's a gimmick but it's very small and easily kept in any pocket).

Here's a link to this at Penguin: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4225

Good luck!

Jim
J-Mac
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Quote:
On Dec 24, 2017, Dougini wrote:

I never thought Scotch and Soda was marketed to the public. Maybe that's why the secret has been kept so long.

Doug


Doug, search for "scotch and soda magic trick" on Amazon and you'll see it offered by both Tango and Sasco. There's a LOT else on Amazon also.

Jim
tonsofquestions
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Quote:
On Dec 24, 2017, J-Mac wrote:
Doug, search for "scotch and soda magic trick" on Amazon and you'll see it offered by both Tango and Sasco. There's a LOT else on Amazon also.

Jim


That's not really a great measuring stick. A lot of Tango items are listed on Amazon, including the TUC. The Secret Servante is also listed there. Recall that Amazon can be a front for other businesses, just to get items visible.
J-Mac
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Tons: Doug said he didn't think S&S was marketed to the public. It is listed for sale on Amazon. If that isn't marketed to the public then what is? Who asked about a "great measuring stick"?

Jim
tonsofquestions
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But that's exactly the point I'm making. It being on Amazon doesn't imply "marketed to the public" because tiny magic stores (or individuals, e.g. Sean Goodman: https://www.amazon.com/Sean-Goodman/b/re......Goodman) can also put things up there. Does that mean, that by your logic, the Secret Servante was also marketed to the public? That was not my understanding.

I'd say if it's at Walmart (thumb tips, beginner's magic sets, Svengali deck) then it would count as being "aimed at the muggles".
Dougini
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Quote:
On Dec 25, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
I'd say if it's at Walmart (thumb tips, beginner's magic sets, Svengali deck) then it would count as being "aimed at the muggles".


Walmart is a good example. Or Spencer's Gifts.

Doug
Charles Gaff
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Scotch and soda with the coin appearing under or in another location and the paddle move is pretty strong. Richard Sanders on the paddle is super strong.
Jonathan Townsend
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There's an impressive trick with a dime and penny- a transposition where the coin seems to change at the tap of a pen. Maybe that item?

link: http://www.fantasmamagic.com/double-x
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dollarbill
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2017, inigmntoya wrote:
If it's got to be coins, then scotch and soda.



easily this........
Mb217
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Hi Scott, welcome to the Café... Smile

Lots of good suggestions here (surprised but maybe I missed it) but I didn't notice mention of a real stalwart of coin magic, maybe because it's so devilishly deceptive & simple... but a little Copper & Silver Coin has a whole lot of magic to it. Smile Plus it's pretty easy and cheap.

It's a coin you can do a lot with and learn a lot from. No hard moves to it really, just some practice to make the coins change places back & forth to great amazement...It meets all your requirements and I think your friend would truly love it. Smile

I've had one of these coins since I was boy, several of them over the years, but my favorite came from Johnson's Coins...Love that coin! It was well made, looked good and felt great to handle for not much money. Smile Just add a matching English penny to it and away you go, and or away you grow! Smile

Again, welcome. Smile
*Check out my latest: Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
funsway
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On Jan 28, 2018, Mb217 wrote:
It meets all your requirements


I though of a C/S right off, but he did say "gimmick" and mentioned "reset." The C/S is a gaff rather than gimmick ..,

but, if you, old friend, think they are interchangeable terms, or feel the OP is really asking for something not completely sleight based ...

Regardless, I still feel that gifting any magician a gaffed or gimmicked anything is not a good idea as stated above.

Now, if for magician friends you do a routine where they will assume you are using a C/S when you are not -- is that an un-gaff, or an over-sleight?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
tonsofquestions
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I agree with Funsway here. If pen-through-anything is too much sleight of hand, then a copper silver is worse - that even requires some sort of switch so that you can hand out the coin afterwards - and that was a no-go for the original poster - the giftee was unwilling to put in much practice. You definitely don't end "as clean as possible", otherwise.

I completely agree that a C/S coin is a fantastic tool/utility, and that there's so much you can do with one. It's one of my favorites as well. Though, in an interesting turn, a S&S actually has one in it, (though of lesser quality), so it's possible it might inspire the recipient to practice more and work on some of those sleights. From what I heard, though, it doesn't sound too likely...
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