Dear Magicians,


I'm a relative newcomer to magic (I'm learning simple card sleights and tricks), and am also working on branching out into other parts of magic. I'm especially interested in learning sponge ball sleights and routines, and ball and vase routines. I'm wondering if anyone can recommend their favorite ways to perform false transfers and palms for both hard balls and sponge balls, preferably with references. And feel free to direct me to other threads; I couldn't find exactly this question, but of course the number of threads is vast.


I already own a number of books and videos that talk about false transfers and palms (though usually with emphasis on coins, not balls), but it's really hard to know which ones will work best for me. Of course, the ultimate solution is to try 'em all, but I thought it would be interesting to hear what experienced magicians' preferences are, keeping in mind that I'm not very far along on the road to mastery. I expect that there will be differences of opinion, as these things are rather subjective -- but such differences can be stimulating and illuminating.


I'll be happy to repost this on Secret Sessions if it would free people to give more detail. And PM's are always welcome, of course.


Thanks for whatever help you can offer!


Regards,


Bob

AL Schneider Technique, DVD vol 1.

The Al Schneider vanish is a vanish you will use the rest of your magic career.

Hudson

Yes, and the Schneider false transfer is the centerpiece of his Theory and Practice of False Transfers, available from Amazon. Even when you know how it's done, the eye is still tricked into telling you that the transfer was real.

Thanks, Hudson and Mark, I have Schneider's false transfers book and had put it aside as it seemed very involved. But, with some experience under my belt, I'll give it a second try. I'm hoping that I can get away with just reading the section on balls at the end, referring as necessary to the coins section. I've also ordered the DVD (as a download, which is thankfully on sale right now at l&l). I appreciate the suggestions. Wish me luck!


Bob

I have developed numerous sleights and techniques for handling balls, stones and other small objects. Some are published in various ebooks, and others not.

I suggest that your search for "sponge ball" techniques be kept separate from "hard ball" techniques. Each has different characteristics and different sleights available.

60% of the sleights for coins, balls and other small objects are the same. Other methods take advantage of shape, weight or texture - good and bad.
Many of those are not transferable to other objects. Likewise, your favorite coin sleights may not be best for balls.

Mastering the Schneider techniques (and logic) will serve you well. Study the most popular moves/sleights that come with sponge balls, billiard ball, C&B.

The size of your hand and finger flexibility may also be factors.

The couple of special moves available are for unique situations -- all based on an assumption of mastery of object control. The new ones were because nothing existed for the result I desired.

I offer these thoughts because you seem to be looking for a short-cut. There are many for doing tricks. For learning to do magic - few.


Here is a test. Carry a small ball around in your hands all day - invisible to observers, of course. Go through your normal day --
eating, driving, making change, blowing your nose, etc. If you cannot move the ball secretly from hand to hand, idle it for a while, have your fingers and hands available for practical things --
all with eye contact on the face of other people ... well, you have more work to do.

The key is not to learn new sleights - it is to act as if they never happened at all.

I applaud your desire to branch out. Enjoy the journey. Contact me privately anytime.

Thanks so much for all your thoughts, Funsway. I always enjoy reading your posts, which are clearly based on deep thinking.


I'm slow and meticulous by nature -- and I have lots of interests. (E. g., I'm a published poet and am taking piano lessons.) And of course I have my job as a math professor. All of these require lots of work, and yet all of these interests are so intense that I want to learn everything right away! So I suppose that's what you sensed. Well -- one could have worse problems.


I appreciate your offer to contact you privately. I want to work on Schneider's ideas, and to try your test. I'll likely have questions, and will contact you if I do.


Bob

I forgot to mention -- I definitely want to learn magic, not just tricks. I'll say more in a PM.

The key is not to learn new sleights - it is to act as if they never happened at all





I love this Funsway quote. That sleights shouldn't be flashy they should be invisible

My mostest favorites are pseudo sleights where you go through the motions of a previous slight but the ball is already gone.

For example, the Schneider drop vanish where the ball is seen falling even though it is retained.
There does not have to be a ball at al in hand if an actual drop was made previously to create a Pattern of Performance.

Dr. Rick: It is a great quote. Of course you do have to learn the sleight first... Though I suppose the most effective way to act as if it never happened is not to do it at all.


Funsway: Very cool. Do you have a reference for the drop vanish? I have Schneider's Theory of False Transfers and his dvd The Al Schneider Technique v. 1 -- I'm hoping it's one of those so I don't feel tempted by buy something else to support my magic habit! Or any reference to other pseudo sleights. You're wonderfully creative, Ken (hope you don't mind my blowing your cover) -- I always learn new ideas from you.


Bob

I guess it is his Basic Vanish on which he spend many pages explaining the need to "know" the coin is in the receiving hand.
The special part for me, is that the audience "sees" the coin fall - a ploy we now know as Predictive Vision.

I talked to Al directly about the pseudo possibilities of his Fake transfers for a couple of days Internet exchanges.
Then he lost interest, that I gather is fairly normal for him. You won't find that reference in any of his books.
I used the term "Drop Vanish" to differentiate from his roll over placement, i.e. there is space between the hands.

But, the concept of Pseudo moves is very old as in the quote "The easiest coin to vanish is the one that never was."

I have numerous small object effects that use this principle, some that use back-to-back pseudo moves.
Each pass further convinces the mind that the perceived situation is more real that what has occurred.

Sadly, many won't use these techniques since a video of the action is not always subject to the same psychological glitch.

Guess I may have to write up some effect descriptions for those who want to learn from books.

No cover to blow. funsway is not a name. It is an anachronism for:

Special Ways to Appreciate Yourself through Foresight, Utility and Nurturing.

I think you mean an acronym, not an an anachronism.

Though I always had trouble with it: shouldn't it be swayfun, if that's the order?

Thanks, Ken -- for the explanation of the acronym and for your comments on pseudo-sleights. The idea is now in my awareness, so, as I continue reading, I'll know it when I see it. If you decide to write about the concept I'd be interested in reading what you write.


I read much of Scneider's discussion of "knowing" the coin is in the hand. It's clever thinking. I didn't carry out the exercises since I'm more interested in balls than coins, but I'm looking forward to reading and practicing his chapter on balls.


Now -- back to cards. One thing at a time...

I remember an old timer at the local Magic Circle when I was but an egg.

"I will now demonstrate how to palm four playing cards undetected." Long pause. "Want to see it again?"

Ha! I love it. Thanks for making me laugh.

I actually tried to type acronym, but transposed letters as I often do with arthritic hands -- the computer filled in the another word and I did no notice.
I guess I should be please that computers attempt to emulate human Predictive Vision, but mine is more often wrong than right. Thanks for the catch, though.

The Sway Process is cyclical, so technically I should write funswayfun there is no "order" for FUN. Just do it all in any order.
The word "appreciation" is the key as it can be used for past, present, future and imagined actions.
For me, the processes of FUN are more important than the results of SWAY

since you are concerned or amused ...

Imagine, for a moment, a delightful glade in a forest teaming with unseen life – a dimple, perhaps in the face of Mother Earth. All around ancient trees and stolid granite boulders give some protection from violent storms and attack from marching forces of unknown fears. The breezes are gentle. You can lie in carefree peace in such a place.

Extend that you are a single willow stalk, firmly rooted in rich soil of tradition and sense of being – gently swaying in this caressing breeze. In fact, you are never still for such rigidity would bring death – and you honor even the fractious gusts and whirlwinds that give meaning to the breeze. Well worn paths of human behavior allow fingers of storms and fury to blast in and through and on. You are flexible, bending in the face of adversity, and glad to be a willow with the ability to sway.

Usually your perceptions swing back in time a bit to fondle memories, then forward in anticipation of tomorrow’s repeat of joy. An unexpected gust may take you even further into future possibilities, and as you sway into reverie might reflect on principles and discordant views of past events that shake your leaves of complacency. You seek balance in the swing, and with the tremors stilled find but a single potential on the future thrust, and settle into a rhythmic sway – a bower of contentment.

At other biddings of swirling squalls of learning or fortune you are buffeted again and again to one side of the sway with little attention to the cycled need for balance. In a moment of calm you find yourself bent in bias toward either perceptions or propensities installed by the wind rather than reason, requiring a drawing of strength from both nature and heaven. In this you grow in girth of humanity and vital core of spirit.

Thus there is always another sway in motion – from a call to divine embrace to that of human passion, of which one must find a range of balance in which all actions are predetermined as acceptable to self rather than adversity. The double sway is that of appreciation and in tune with the pulse of both creation and wisdom. – and to Source a simple wave of friendship.

Ken,


Have you ever read William James's The Variety of Religious Experience? (I may have the title slightly wrong.) One of my colleagues in the religious studies department said that James would classify me as a "Once-Born Nature Mystic." I was intrigued enough to try to read James's chapter on such people, and found it exceedingly rough going. I eventuallly gave up. But, if you're not familiar with the book, you might want to give it a try. I'm guessing from your elaboration of your acronym, and from other things of yours that I've read, that you, too, may be a once-born nature mystic. Of course, I still don't understand what James meant by the term, so I may be wrong about both of us! What I do know if that nature -- being out in the woods in the spring with wildflowers blooming, for instance -- can evoke strong, transcendent -- and yet quiet and peaceful -- feelings in me.


Bob

True or not, Bob, I take that as a compliment

fortunately, I am married to once-born musical adept.

It was meant as a compliment. Does your spouse play an instrument?

Are we getting further from magic, or closer?

Harp, guitar and an amazing voice. On St, Patty's Day she is playing Celtic music in a park and later parade,
then in the evening at a brewery. I don't understand how she can remember so many songs, plus originals

back on the OP theme - she palms a pick when playing guitar and switches it in and out as necessary --
always has since a girl. Being visually impaired she is always loosing them - just a natural facilitation.

Why magic? We were married nine years before I realized she was doing it!

If anyone has doubts of finger dexterity while finger palming an object ...
or the illusion that guitarist uses all of their strumming/plucking fingers ...
or that one cares to analyze anything when captured my the artistry ...