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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts 
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Thankyou Seth. At least now I know I'm not alone. People are human beings. We should have enough love in our hearts for our brother magicians to at least want to help, and not, as you say, rip them to shreds. I mean, with this guy, it was like somebody threw out a piece of raw meat to hungry wolves. They should have named this topic "FEEDING FRENZY"
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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chrisrkline Special user Little Rock 965 Posts
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I agree with you Seth. I am new enough that I was surprised at how much I spotted on DVD, but after reading some of the posts I was a little taken aback. There was a feeling of "If you can't perform at a higher level than this guy, than you are in danger of ruining magic for everyone." I have trouble believing that this guy was driving his audiences screaming into the night. He wasn't the next Bill Malone, yet, but it wasn't that bad. He's not trying to sell his video to L&L publishing after all.
Chris
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JamieDeep New user 46 Posts
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Well said, Seth. I suspect that such a strong negative reaction is motivated by more than a little self-recognition and subsequent loathing on behalf of the mob. Projecting your own weaknesses onto others in order to criticise and then alienate them is a classic way of preserving self-esteem.
You should all ask yourselves whether other people view your magic in the same way you did his. I suspect for 3/4 of you may they do... |
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Micheal Leath Inner circle 1048 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-04-23 01:42, SethHoward wrote: Yes, it is about having fun & entertaining people, but if you call yourself a magician, then you must also fool the audience. If you just want to entertain, then be a comedian or whatever. I seriously doubt this guy amazes any audience. What do I know though? |
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts
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I agree, Michael. There are lots of ways to entertain and have a good time. If you're going to perform for an audience, why would you not wish to do it well? I wonder if some would have been so charitable had the performance been a musical one? If so, someone hand me a clarinet, for I have a newfound confidence that I've found an appreciative audience with lax standards who will forgive my utter incompetence with this instrument.
:hrmph:
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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ksalaz1 Loyal user 237 Posts
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Good point about the clarinet. I thought that some of the moves he did were so bad (the pass) that it bordered on exposure. Great that he has the confidence to post on the net, but it bored the daylights out of me - imagine the reaction of lay people. Also, it seemed like a vanity piece. I mean, where do you get off saying you invented the ambitious card?
KSalaz
"Master of the Obvious"
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts
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Here is my honest opinion (positives)
1. did he entertain .. yes 2 did he perform magic .... yes 3 was his material original for lay audience yes for magicians .. no 4 would I hire him to perform .. yes My only negatives would be improve on his impersonations and do some original material and stop using the same old jokes that magicians have done for ages vinny |
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bunkyhenry Special user NYC Metro 828 Posts
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I could not watch the whole thing.
Too painful. Don't like pain. |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-04-23 01:42, SethHoward wrote: Good finally someone with DECENCY !!! I agree with you Seth 100%. The only way to "truly judge" this video is to have your "lay friends" come over and watch it, and see how their reactions are. WE ARE MAGICIANS, so obviously we will pick up on his moves. I CAN'T even do a descent pass either. That's why when I do it, it is one on one or for just a limited amount of people and I'll say something for mis-direction, they look up, then (BAM) the move is done. that's just me though. We ALL have our sleights that need work. AS Magicians we are to ENCOURAGE, and NOT to bash!!! As far as him being arrogant, I really didn't see it. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Peace, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts
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Also, don't forget he didn't ask you to go to his site.
I assume that its his promo tool not an audition for The magic Circle I don't think he intended it to be viewed on a "Magicians" wesite.Perhaps magickevin should have kept it to himself rather than invite others to poke fun at it(him). He is obviously self taught and I am sure that with a little constructive criticism from "friendly" magi's he could improve beyond recognition. As a footnote..I've never heard of 99percent of the so-called professional magicians on here..or seen them perform.but I've seen this guy!!! Howard |
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts
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Sorry, Eddini. I cannot agree. I was judging him as a spectator. It wasn't so much his sloppy technique that gave me a rash, it was his poor presentation. Moreover, it's one thing to put up a web video for your fellows and say "So how is it? Any improvement needed?". I'd certainly hope that we'd all try to be gentle about our criticisms. But when you're presenting yourself as ready for the big show, you'd better be that.
I don't hate the man. I do cringe a bit at the thought that one day I might be introduced to an audience as a magician, only to meet a spectator who's seen this fellow first. I'll consider myself lucky to hold her attention long enough to try to undo the damage he's probably done. The moral of the story: Work on your dialog and movement, consider hiring a director, and for God's sake don't let your performance out of the house while it's still in beta. BTW Eddini, I don't hate you either. I only disagree with the notion that I should offer aid and comfort to poor performance. Peace to you as well.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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Niko Special user England 599 Posts
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Well I thought I'd put it to the test, so I showed my friend ( a layperson) to see what they thought of it, and made sure I didn't influence them at all. The spectator wen in with a good atttude hoping to see some good magic.
She enjoyed it. She couldn't tell at all what he was doing so therefore liked it. So there you go. Although I have only tried it on one person, proabbly most lay people would enjoy it. Also I must say I liekd his flick where the ace jumped fomr the pack into his hand. Can anyone tell me how this is done? Thanks, -Niko
When you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts
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I think that speaks for itself Niko,
so much for "Magicians Slagging Magicians" howard |
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italianmagi90023 Loyal user 250 Posts
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Is the guy trying to sell a product? The internet is an open forum for people to display their ideas and talents...lets not start dictating what can go up and what can't.
Thanks Mike |
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Staggerlee New user Chicago 61 Posts
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I believe that if anyone makes anything public we can judge him. Some people are going to like him and some aren't. No one has gotten personal here. He needs improvement and that's why a site like this exists. Lay people are not going to tell him where he needs improvement so we must. I hope he sees this because maybe he'll discover some things that will help improve his performance.
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Mike Walton Special user Chicago 984 Posts
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Nicely put seraph127.
Maybe some of the critical posts came from magicians who are extremely critical of their own work, as they should be, and who understand the height of the bar required for strong presentation. I, for one, do not perform anything that isn't bullet proof technically or which can't be tied to an astonishing and engaging presentation. Because of that, I always have routines in limbo that are mastered technically but for some reason the presentation isn't clicking or is lacking in some way. Parts of his routine should still be in limbo. I think posts came from magicians who were astonished at his lack of astonishment from his presentation. That's a fair call. I think magicians do support magicians here. If something is good, be it an effect, presentation video, etc. magicians will indeed praise it. The presentation in this guy's video, which he released to the world on the web, was not good. |
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Tielie Special user 749 Posts
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I am a cardguy, so I don't know much about the rest. So on these acts, I'm quite a layman (awful word
 ). And I actually do like some bits of his act. Hell with it, I am going to watch it again 
The first part of his show is corny I think, but I don't mind seeing the rest.
Deal cards, not drugs!
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Dario_Bauer Regular user glasgow 109 Posts
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That embodied almost everything there is to hate about magicians, for me it was painful to watch. That is why magic isn't held in a high regard. As far as the 'Art' of magic is concerned, pathetic.
However(!!!), for some good old family entertainment, sure why not. If you can get past the phase of wanting to tear your arm off, just so you have something to hit him with, then I'm a sure he would provide some good jolly entertainment. Under no circumstances would I hire him as a magician(he cannot fan a deck of cards), but as an entertainer he seems like a nice guy, and I guess I would hire him for a family orientated event. Lots of people have been negative about his magic (me included) and based on that performance it is justified, especially after the bill he gave himself (thats not 17 years worth of card handling). However, his target is entertainment not magic, for that you have to give him credit and praise, I assume his hypnosis is a lot better than his magic. I will be tuning in to his Doc Andrews Elixir whenever it becomes avaliable, that should be funny.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography"
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italianmagi90023 Loyal user 250 Posts
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I see where your coming from
mike |
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Chris Keppel Special user Kansas City MO 544 Posts
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Yea I agree with like 80 other people on this topic. I don't think he invented it but he did do it nice. The one thing I didn't like is that he used every cheesy joke in the book. Now I do resturant magic all over kansas city and I have used some of the all time cheesy jokes and they really don't go over well. I do infact to the ambitious all the time and have added a few of my own new and very powerfull add on's. This guy is good though. He did do the tricks well. Just didn't really see anything new that hasnt been out forever. I liked the stuff though. I wouldnt have said I invented it. that's like saying I was the first person to make up the double lift, no really I was!!! Hahaha lol, later all
www.chriskeppel.com
Kepp's Custom Carbon Fiber |
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Posted: Apr 23, 2004 11:20 am 
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