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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Outlaw Effects Builds (59 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Buddhaweasel
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Shelton, WA
4 Posts

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Just to make this clear. Karl Feret and Tim Weisseman no longer work with Rick Rothbart or Outlaw Effects. He owes each of us substantial amounts of money and refuses to remove our photos from his web site. If you are purchasing anything from him be aware of what you are purchasing and very aware of the dispute cut off date with Paypal or you will be out of luck with any chance of a refund.
Delimbeau
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May the magic be with you
466 Posts

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There must be a way to stop this neverending story...
cocomax
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North Fork, CA
284 Posts

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On Dec 7th, 2017 Outlaw sold a Spiritas Maximus to someone for $600 and they emailed me today asking about the status of the order.

The Maximus is something that requires both myself (Tim Wisseman) and Karl Feret to make.

We are not building ANYTHING for Outlaw.

Chris T Sipes (Dr X) told me this morning that he knows nothing of the order, was never paid to build it and is no longer taking any new orders from Outlaw.

I was told this morning that Rick still telling people that I (Tim Wisseman) am building for him and everything is fine. That is untrue, I am NOT building for Outlaw and NEVER will again.

The Outlaw web site shows my items and even says I am building the items (see the Witch Box and Luna Key Box), this again is untrue.

This is MADNESS!
Perkins
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888 Posts

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Two cents: Your name is your brand and this guy is scamming people by falsely representing you. You should team up and take legal action to prevent this. There are so many of us that would support you in this endeavor. It’s time to end this.
Darkness
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1456 Posts

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The only way to stop this, is stop buying from him. I can't imagine people are buying bizarre stuff like this, and have no clue on this guys long standing history of ripping people off over the years. Are these all new people who someone found him but didn't read the Café reviews or Google him? How is this possible to not know? Or are they taking a chance and complaining after. Percentage wise I bet a lot know...

Signed,
(The other) Rick.
Eddie Garland
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Hells Kitchen, New York City
4192 Posts

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Friends do not let friends buy from OutLaw. Do not do it.
Wizard of Oz
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Most people wish I didn't have
5189 Posts

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Quote:
On Feb 10, 2018, cocomax wrote:
On Dec 7th, 2017 Outlaw sold a Spiritas Maximus to someone for $600 and they emailed me today asking about the status of the order.

The Maximus is something that requires both myself (Tim Wisseman) and Karl Feret to make.

We are not building ANYTHING for Outlaw.

Chris T Sipes (Dr X) told me this morning that he knows nothing of the order, was never paid to build it and is no longer taking any new orders from Outlaw.

I was told this morning that Rick still telling people that I (Tim Wisseman) am building for him and everything is fine. That is untrue, I am NOT building for Outlaw and NEVER will again.

The Outlaw web site shows my items and even says I am building the items (see the Witch Box and Luna Key Box), this again is untrue.

This is MADNESS!



So, it seemed for a short time that Dr. X was Rick's new craftsman...has he burned this bridge as well?
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
cocomax
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North Fork, CA
284 Posts

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Dr X's bridges with Rick are burned. The very same things that happened to me happened to Dr X. Rick owes him a lot of money for things built up to 8 months ago. He has build many things without any pay in hopes of bailing out Rick, but found out the hard way that Rick can make things worse much faster then anyone can bail him out.

Today Dr X found out that an Outlaw customer was expecting him to figure out how to and build a copy of Karl Feret's Spiritus Maximus before Feb 28th, something that he was not told of by Rick or paid by Rick to build. It is strange telling a customer that your (former) builder will ship something before Feb 28th and you have not told your (former) builder of the order or the deadline or paid him and on top of it all it is a very complex piece that he has never built before. It is something that Karl spent a great deal of time figuring out.

Customers popping up out of the blue asking about old orders I never heard of happened almost daily when I was building for Outlaw, now it happens about once a week.
Anverdi-museum
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Man, that sucks! A real nightmare that gives magic a bad name. I can vouch for Tim ( I am sure we all can )...he is an honest, hardworking, creative individual that does not deserve to be dragged into this nonsense, probably the greatest asset to come along in the magic community in years!
Intrepid
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Silver Spring, MD
950 Posts

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Victimes can file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission

How to file a complaint:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/Information#crnt

30-day Internet order rule:
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business......ne-order
Bob
weepinwil
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USA
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Quote:
On Feb 10, 2018, Darkness wrote:
The only way to stop this, is stop buying from him. I can't imagine people are buying bizarre stuff like this, and have no clue on this guys long standing history of ripping people off over the years. Are these all new people who someone found him but didn't read the Café reviews or Google him? How is this possible to not know? Or are they taking a chance and complaining after. Percentage wise I bet a lot know...

Signed,
(The other) Rick.


He is selling through other names and other people. I bought an item on the auction site from Jack Sparrow and the Paypal bill came in as Outlaw Effects. Also bought an Outlaw book test item on the Café that I thought was pre-owned and it came still wet. Café member said that is the way he received it with instructions not to remove the rubber bands until it dries. So he must still be doing the paper stuff himself.

Difficult to counter these methods because the name or person changes.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
RCP
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Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas
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In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872.

https://oag.ca.gov/consumers

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/inves......mes.aspx

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/artic......-FAQ2422
cocomax
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North Fork, CA
284 Posts

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Rick C Rothbart, age 62 of Sherman Oaks, CA (The Outlaw) is now sending people to strangers houses to pick up checks for money he owes.

Today he told someone they need to go to the house of Rick Danial Roth (Age 50) of Simi Valley to pick up a check from a complete stranger who has nothing to do with Rick C Rothbart, but happens to have a similar name.
Darkness
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You and I both know Tim, that Chris T Sipes (Dr. X) was warned about Rick from the beginning of his partnership (a long time ago). But he still chose to work with him. Chris even removed his real name and started using Dr.X. The evidence presented to him was overwhelming, but he had no problem ignoring it and continuing making money for Outlaw. Until he was owed money. Please read that again.

It seems that even if you warn people they don't listen. Some even go into business with them, and they were warned!

I was very vocal about Rick and took a lot of flack from this community for doing so (remember? of course people don't because I'm the bad guy lol). As I am right now, for taking other positions of concern (I'm beginning to think it isn't worth it, but I don't care about sales). Only when it could no longer be denigned about Rick, did the more recognizable individuals from our industry come out of hiding to make a solid stand. Keeping silent for so long was wrong and only helped enable him longer. Rick was even invited to ECSS!!! How many shook his hand and had a drink with him knowing his history? As it was horrible then too. People even made jokes about his shady reputation, like it was funny or ok!!

How soon we forget the truth.

So yes, go ahead an warn the same people who know, but don't listen. What next? Dr. X becomes a victim? Hardly, he is part of the problem. And he does Gospel magic? lol this is a joke right? Is it heaven or hell? Pick one, I have...
cocomax
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North Fork, CA
284 Posts

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Rick has been forgiven many times and given many second chances and turned over many new leaves.

The problem is MOST of the bizarre folks are very kind and honest people and trust one another as friends, Rick was treated as one of us.

Rick is one of a kind, a charming person, a sweet talker that is able to get what he wants, but he sees himself and calls himself "The Dark Lord"
not because he is a magician, he is not, he has never done a magic show in his life. He sees himself as the "Dark Lord" because of the power he feels he has to get people to do his bidding.

Back at ECSS1 when Rick and Vic did a panel Rick opened with the line, "Ask me anything you want, except, where is my order?" The signs of trouble were there long ago, I was foolishly working as hard as possible to make sure Outlaw customers got what they ordered while Rick ran the business into the ground.

I am still waiting to be paid for the things he took to ECSS1.

Rick is able to guilt builders into staying with him to make sure the customers get what they ordered.

He also runs up huge debts that he owes builders and builders stay with him with the hope that maybe someday Rick will pay off that debt.

In order to quit outlaw I had to accept the fact that a lot of people are not going to get what they ordered and will never get their money back.
I also had to give up all hope of ever getting the money that he owes me.

On the bright side by leaving I am no longer part of the problem, no longer helping Rick continue doing what he is doing.

Tim Wisseman
Darkness
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Too many conmen in our industry. Did you know Chris T Sipes is a real preacher? I wonder what his church and flock think of his dark passions? Hypocrite! Is he a conman?

Another shady practice is selling expensive props with zero effect stated. Basically you have no idea what you are buying, yet you gladly give these people your money and praise. You guys justify this like somehow it's normal and ok. Would you ever buy things in your daily life this way? "This mystery item will make you the greatest wizard in the world!". Who do I give my money to!?

We all have to take responsibility. I have, by making this not about me and taking one for the team. I wish others would at least say something to help support a solution to these problems. Or just blame me if it makes you feel better.
gothicmagic
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A) Rick was indeed at ECSS (at that time it was when he was attempting to "turn over many a new leaf" so we thought maybe having people pick up things owed to them or face to face may change things, obviously it didn't (we never paid him to be there, just so that's clear and can not be brought up later)

B) description of products should be included, but I have seen on more than one occasion people demanding the right that you tell them the method of the effect as "that was only fair disclosure also, nope (many a magic website will tell you you are buying the secret, once purchased there will be no returns, I believe Blackhart has a sticker on his products that say if opened may not be returned)

V
Vlad ^0^
One of The Founding Fathers of The East Coast Spirit Sessions
www.Gothicmagic.com
Winks
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Arizona
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Help me understand, Darkness, what you mean by dark passions. I, as many here know, am a real preacher and pastor of a Christian congregation (as is another prominent member here - but not having his permission, I won't name him). I love bizarre magic but but that doesn't put me in jeopardy with my beliefs or make me a conman, any more so than if I did card magic or coin magic. At least as I see it. So, please explain if you would, that I may understand. And I am also one who is owed by Roth and spoke out in warning about him as you did. I paid for Death Came Knocking at ECSS I and never received it.
gothicmagic
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What one portrays on stage and what one believes can be very different things I don't think many of the actors and actresses go home after doing a Shakespeare play and partake in incest,murder or other pastimes
although in modern Hollywood you never know
performance vs reality

but that and Outlaw effects are entirely different topics
Vlad ^0^
One of The Founding Fathers of The East Coast Spirit Sessions
www.Gothicmagic.com
Buddhaweasel
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Shelton, WA
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Start here: https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-comp......-company

As individuals reporting fraud to your local police it is worthless. If every customer or contractor who ever lost money to Rick and Outlaw Effects filed their complaint here, with the California Attorney General, it would maybe get him the psychiatric help he needs and the prison sentence he deserves. Individually he has stolen a few hundred here and there. Collectively it is tens of thousands of dollars over the years of federal and international fraud.

I spent years designing (independently and in collaboration with his ideas) and building the majority of Outlaw's most popular big money props (which would be nothing without Tim's magic) including The Departed, Spiritus Magnus, Spiritas, Spiritus Maximus, Occulus, Curtains, Polly, Lillians Jewelry Box, Death Came Knocking, Dark Lord Knocker and Cabinet de los Meurtos. Many times it took me refusing to ship props until I had payment in hand before I got paid. I was insulated from most of the drama because this was a side business to what I focus on and because Rick handled all communications, but I often caught whiffs of what was going on behind the scenes. I often got last minute "rush" orders from him, sounds like more often than not he never paid me or Tim and just took your money and ran (in addition to bilking us when he had the chance). Over the years I lost a few hundred dollars to Rick which I wrote off as bad debts because I never let him get too far behind and rarely shipped work without payment up front.

This form will take you less than ten minutes to complete. I've done it. If you want to stop this you need to get every person he has swindled to do the same. Numbers make a difference. If you are disabled, it matters. If you are elderly, it matters. If you are a vet, it matters. Only a collective effort can make this happen. I've got 8+ years worth of paper trail I'm more than happy to commit to this, but the AG will not respond to just one complaint.
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