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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Retention vanish (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Dan Farmer
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Loyal user
Northern Nevada
235 Posts

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Hey coin guys, I had a question about the retention vanish and video taping. If you watch a video of yourself doing the retention vanish are you able to fool yourself? My video doesn't seem convincing and I don't know if it's just because I know what's going on or if I should just show my little brother and see if I can fool him.

-Dan
Bernard Sim
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Inner circle
Singapore
1095 Posts

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It took me a while to know how to do a retention vanish. It is not a knuckle busting move but correct timing is very important here. I practise infront of a mirror and it looks ok to me. I guess you'll have to convince yourself first before doing it for other people. Smile

BTW, this is my 500th post Smile
Bernard Sim
Tom Cutts
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Staff
Northern CA
5828 Posts

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Does David Roth's RV fool you? Smile
Do you know what he is doing? Smile

See, you knew the answer all along. Smile
thatmagicguy
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Las Vegas, NV
35 Posts

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jackmh- You bring up an interesting point.
As magicians we tend to be too technical when watching fellow magi perform.
Unfortunately for many, they don't get as 'technical' with themselves.
Good for you in evaltuating yourself!
Now, to get to an answer to your question...
There is now easy way to know if your retention vanish(or any other sleight for that matter) is 'good enough.'
Does it fool your audience? That is the main question.
One more thing, mechanics of a move are very important, what is more important is the routine around the moves.
With a good solid routine, you shouldn't have any problem. Routining will help make everything natural and 'feel' real to your audience.
One last bit to ramble with, if you can 'act' or convince yourself that what you are doing is magic, then your audience will believe it too.
I would go into naturalism, but is there anything at all about picking up a coin and putting into another hand to make it do something?
No.
That's why there must be a routine built around it.
I'm moving back to Vegas.....anyone there that can help me out in getting adjusted to the Sin City again!?!!?
Dan Farmer
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Northern Nevada
235 Posts

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Tom, never seen Roth do it. Everything I know about coin magic I learned from Bobo's (Sounds like a poster). I actually do have Roth's videos on my wishlist, I don't know how I got sidetracked. It was the first magic instructional thing that was every recommended to me and yet I bought all kinds of other stuff and never got it.

Up until today I've had 11 bucks in my checking account. Finally got paid but I gotta pay off my $1,000 Vegas vacation Smile
variable75
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66 Posts

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Jack-

David Roth gives a good tip on the retention pass, something along the lines of he, himself, doesn't really know if he puts the coin in the hand or not. Of course this is embellishment, however, it underscores an important point. The retention pass should look natural to your performing style and closely replicate you really putting the coin in your hand. Here is a thing that helped me that I learned from a Juan Tamariz video. Perform the move about 10-15 times switching between really putting the coin in the hand and a retention pass. When you are done rewind and when you are viewing your tape write down whether you think it is one or the other. When you get good you should be able to fool yourself! Hope it helps!
dchung
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Montreal
616 Posts

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I agree. In Close-up Illusions, the late great Gary Ouellet explains a sponge ball retention vanish, but the same principles apply here. During your performance, you have to believe you actually placed your coin in your hand. And you should act that way. Look at how your hands would naturally look if you actually did leave the coin there. And make sure that while performing the retention vanish, they look exactly the same.

Cheers,
dchung
dchung
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Montreal
616 Posts

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I agree. In Close-up Illusions, the late great Gary Ouellet explains a sponge ball retention vanish, but the same principles apply here. During your performance, you have to believe you actually placed your coin in your hand. And you should act that way. Look at how your hands would naturally look if you actually did leave the coin there. And make sure that while performing the retention vanish, they look exactly the same.

Cheers,
dchung
Michael Rubinstein
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V.I.P.
4081 Posts

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To properly perform a retention vanish, you need to break it down into steps, and slowly practice step by step. As you build up memory, you can do it faster and faster until it looks natural. If you try to do it too fast, you will mix up the steps and do the secret move before it's appropriately hidden. See my knockout coin magic tapes or my move tapes to get a better idea of this. On my move tapes-dvd's, by the way, there are two sections on retention magic, all explained and broken down in step form. - Michael Rubinstein
Available at dealers EVERYWHERE - RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! Already called a Modern Classic!!
And if anyone (USA ONLY) needs some of the coin stuff used in the book, shoot me an email at rubinsteindvm@aol.com as I have some limited supplies of coins and props used in the book.
Tony Chapparo
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Albuquerque, NM
705 Posts

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I was going to mention Dr. Rubinstein's DVD series "encyclopedia of coin slieghts" but he beat me to it!

These are fantastic learning tools, I have learned or should I say re-learned correctly how to do many moves I was performing the wrong way.
Tony Chapparo
gimmick1586
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Regular user
181 Posts

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Well sometimes it not all in the move. Some times if you throw the coin in the hand that way a couple of times then fake it, even if it wasn't beautiful from them seeing it so many times they will think it is in that hand. Also if you act like the coin is in that hand. Like follow with your eyes. Also you can do moves like the coin flip or back thumb palm to show or hand empty even if your not pointing it out then they will think it is in that hand. So it is hard to watch a tape and be fooled because you wouldn't look for that or go along with it. So you can't tell if it would have worked.
Dante King
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California, USA
36 Posts

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MSR,
I must add as well, that your Encyclo of Coin Sleights is GREAT!. As a hardcore card guy trying to diversify, the tapes are pure gold.
Dante
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