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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » The Ribbon Clock Time Machine (13 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Seth speaks
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Holy wow... this is impressive beyond words!! Wonderful design, and the creativity involved is just staggering. I think you have found a new income source, sir—if you wish to go in that direction! Congratulations on this achievement. You are a craftsman I will certainly be following...
DaleTrueman
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Quote:

Finally, the veener thing again. I believe it would be difficult to put veneer on the smallest curves (like on the base), but if the veneer is thin enough, it might work. It would most likely take quite a bit of time to do, so would add a lot to the cost. Using wood-infused plastic is of course a lot easier, but that does not give any grain, of course.


Possibly, though veneer can be almost paper thin. Stuff I have used has been about the thickness of the sort of cardboard they make greeting cards from and quite flexible.

The top of this is a veneer glued to curved plywood. It was very thin veneer. It could be rolled up into a loose tube (carefully as it's also quite brittle). With care I think it could be applied to your awesome clock.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipO1......WxSMa5Gf
gimpy2
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Okay a little on veneer. I veneer something about every day or two. I have done just about all the types of veneer out there at one time or another. Veneers come in several ways and use different methods to apply.
Raw veneer is just very thin wood sheets. Raw veneer is cheap but very hard to work with without a vacume sestem.
Another option is backed veneer. Woodbacked veneer is not very flexable and the thickest of the backed veneers. It is hard to cut cleanly with a knife so its better for flat square projects like a table top. Several glue options.

I use paper backed veneers. Its thin wood or composites with a factory applied paper backing. This stuff is very easy to work with. It comes in 10 mil and 20 mil thickness. 10 mil is 1/64" thick so its very flexable.Several glue choices here. For small projects I like gel contact cement. I have heard of folks having problems with getting bubbles or a poor bond with contact cement but I rarely run in to this. Proper temp and humidity and a good seal coat prevents problems. A great thing about thin paper back is how easy it cuts. Cut the veneer with sissors a bit bigger than you need stick it on and trim off the exess with a utility knife. once all your pieces are in place you can sand starting with 220 grit for perfect cornners.
As mentioned above you would need to use water base contact cement on something like the clock.Regular contact cement will melt plastic. I have put wood veneer on styrofoam and had no problems with the water based. The detail on the clock wont work very good with veneer. The curves are no problem but the recess ribbon detail would have to be flat or filled in or you will get a big bubble. The trim would have to be painted or made of wood.
A good option to get a wood look is to faux paint a wood patern directly on the piece but that's a whole other topic.
Angelo Carbone
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What an amazing trick! Kudos to you sir!
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Wizard of Oz
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2018, Angelo Carbone wrote:
What an amazing trick! Kudos to you sir!


Well mroek, there you have it. Praise from one of the most innovative magic minds of our time in my opinion. Not bad.
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mroek
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I am blown away by all the nice comments! Thanks, everyone!
DaleTrueman
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2018, gimpy2 wrote:
Okay a little on veneer. I veneer something about every day or two. I have done just about all the types of veneer out there at one time or another. Veneers come in several ways and use different methods to apply.
Raw veneer is just very thin wood sheets. Raw veneer is cheap but very hard to work with without a vacume sestem.
Another option is backed veneer. Woodbacked veneer is not very flexable and the thickest of the backed veneers. It is hard to cut cleanly with a knife so its better for flat square projects like a table top. Several glue options.

I use paper backed veneers. Its thin wood or composites with a factory applied paper backing. This stuff is very easy to work with. It comes in 10 mil and 20 mil thickness. 10 mil is 1/64" thick so its very flexable.Several glue choices here. For small projects I like gel contact cement. I have heard of folks having problems with getting bubbles or a poor bond with contact cement but I rarely run in to this. Proper temp and humidity and a good seal coat prevents problems. A great thing about thin paper back is how easy it cuts. Cut the veneer with sissors a bit bigger than you need stick it on and trim off the exess with a utility knife. once all your pieces are in place you can sand starting with 220 grit for perfect cornners.
As mentioned above you would need to use water base contact cement on something like the clock.Regular contact cement will melt plastic. I have put wood veneer on styrofoam and had no problems with the water based. The detail on the clock wont work very good with veneer. The curves are no problem but the recess ribbon detail would have to be flat or filled in or you will get a big bubble. The trim would have to be painted or made of wood.
A good option to get a wood look is to faux paint a wood patern directly on the piece but that's a whole other topic.
Sounds great and I don't want to be picky but 1/64 of an inch is about .4 mil. 10 mil is quite thick, almost a third of an inch.
Vater Araignee
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Quote:
On Apr 21, 2018, DaleTrueman wrote:
Sounds great and I don't want to be picky but 1/64 of an inch is about .4 mil. 10 mil is quite thick, almost a third of an inch.


I don't want to be picky... well, yes, yes I do! A mil is not the same as a mm.
A mil is 0.001 inch in thickness so 1/64 is 0.015625" and 10 mil is 0.01" or so close to 1/64 that for practical home reasons it doesn't matter.
Now with .4 mil you are talking ten thousandths of an inch.
By the way, a third of an inch would be 330 mil or 8.382 mm if a gave a customer something 0.0637" to thick, I would get fired. Best to call 1/3" 8.5mm because 4 thou tolerance is forgivable unless you are working something like aerospace.
Actually now that I think about it, I don't know what measuring system you are confusing because you said 10 was almost 1/3" implying that it is < where as you surely would have used something to indicate > if you thought it was so, or something like approximately if you weren't sure.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
DaleTrueman
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Quote:
On Apr 21, 2018, Vater Araignee wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 21, 2018, DaleTrueman wrote:
Sounds great and I don't want to be picky but 1/64 of an inch is about .4 mil. 10 mil is quite thick, almost a third of an inch.


I don't want to be picky... well, yes, yes I do! A mil is not the same as a mm.
A mil is 0.001 inch in thickness so 1/64 is 0.015625" and 10 mil is 0.01" or so close to 1/64 that for practical home reasons it doesn't matter.
Now with .4 mil you are talking ten thousandths of an inch.
By the way, a third of an inch would be 330 mil or 8.382 mm if a gave a customer something 0.0637" to thick, I would get fired. Best to call 1/3" 8.5mm because 4 thou tolerance is forgivable unless you are working something like aerospace.
Actually now that I think about it, I don't know what measuring system you are confusing because you said 10 was almost 1/3" implying that it is < where as you surely would have used something to indicate > if you thought it was so, or something like approximately if you weren't sure.


I stand completely and utterly corrected and I have learnt something.

I guess as someone who grew up with only the metric system I made a poor assumption that the person quoting thicknesses grew up with the imperial system and was confused. Turns out the confused person was me! Thanks for setting me straight. Smile
Vater Araignee
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On Apr 23, 2018, DaleTrueman wrote:


I stand completely and utterly corrected and I have learnt something.

I guess as someone who grew up with only the metric system I made a poor assumption that the person quoting thicknesses grew up with the imperial system and was confused. Turns out the confused person was me! Thanks for setting me straight. Smile

To be honest, I use to try to get machinists to stop using mil because of the confusion especially since it comes from the Latin mille and just stick with thou. I stopped talking about any alternate words and systems when I accidentally got a few to start using moot to confuse newbies. Funny enough, 1 moot = 0.333... inch. lol
Want to get really confused? A surveyors foot is bigger than the us/international foot, using either to build something described in Roman feet will yield an object smaller than intended.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
marc_casellato
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Very impressive! You've made a very good prop and plot!
thomhaha
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Superb looking prop. My father restored clocks as a hobby, and yours looks like one I recall from childhood.

There are quality papers printed as wood that could also be used to adorn, enough for stage appearances. But if I were purchasing, I would prefer veneer!
Pedro Nieves
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Mroek, this looks terrific. I'm impressed with how precise your 3D Print parts are. Definitely impressed with the effect itself! I love the prop, plot and effect, and that's not very often the case nowadays. I would be proud to have this on my shelf, both at home and at our shop.

Do you mind if I ask what's your reset time? How practical is it to perform this if one were doing, say, back to back shows?

I'm looking forward to seeing future iterations of this and to seeing what other pieces you come up with.
Pedro Nieves
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On Apr 17, 2018, mroek wrote:

Finally, the veener thing again. I believe it would be difficult to put veneer on the smallest curves (like on the base), but if the veneer is thin enough, it might work. It would most likely take quite a bit of time to do, so would add a lot to the cost. Using wood-infused plastic is of course a lot easier, but that does not give any grain, of course.


I believe that what Vater suggested was printing the base flat, straight down. After adding veneer over the face you (he) could add actual wood molding at the base. That way he would not have to worry about adding veneer over the tightest curves at the base. The only consideration for that would be if the mechanism required you to use the inside space that the trim or molding gives you. Not knowing how your piece works, I don't know how difficult it would be to move the internal components around.

Either way, it should be possible to veneer this just fine if one has the know how and proper tools. Yes, it would add manufacturing time and cost to the unit, but it could be an option available to people who may want this piece in their show but who would not want it to have the trademark signs of 3D printing.
mroek
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On May 6, 2018, Pedro Nieves wrote:
Mroek, this looks terrific. I'm impressed with how precise your 3D Print parts are. Definitely impressed with the effect itself! I love the prop, plot and effect, and that's not very often the case nowadays. I would be proud to have this on my shelf, both at home and at our shop.

Do you mind if I ask what's your reset time? How practical is it to perform this if one were doing, say, back to back shows?

I'm looking forward to seeing future iterations of this and to seeing what other pieces you come up with.

Pedro, thanks for the kind words!
The reset time is around 5 minutes or less with some practice, so you'd need a break of at least that length between shows.
Pedro Nieves
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I wonder if anything could be done to cut some of that re-set time...

I think this would be a great piece to perform at trade shows. Several different presentation options come to mind when watching it, and the routines could be customized easily to different products. It definitely looks like a piece that will make people stop and watch, and possibly even stick around to watch your set more than once. But in that setting you are really hopping for no or short reset whenever possible. That said, this may be an exception.

Keep up the great work!
goodingda
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I'm a big fan of cut and restored ribbons and this is one of the best! Would love to see you put this on the market!

I have the Richard Gerlitz version which costs $$$$, if you can find one, and it is a pain to set up. Plus, the theme is not nearly as good as the clock!

Personally, I like the solid black plastic. Not sure how much wood adds to the value, since it is such a great and unique trick!
Payner44
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I just took possession of this trick in Black/Red with red ribbon. It is very well made and fun to perform. Completely examinable!
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simcoscor
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Hi Mroek,

I received my Ribbon Clock Time Machine earlier this week and had the chance to learn the MO and play a bit with it, and I think it is FANTASTIC!

You really did a great job, all around! The effect in itself is great, the inner workings are brilliant, and the story / the idea of a clock that goes back in time makes everything looks so logical (or illogical? Smile) ... It is a pleasure to perform!

It looks like an Ultimate Tenyo Trick (It would definitely have been the centerpiece of their magic line)!

The principle behind is somewhat similar to the ribbon masterpiece made by Richard Gerlitz - Family Ties, which I had the chance to buy from him almost 10 years ago – but with your version I like the fact that no base is needed.

I will need some more practice to be able to set everything rapidly, but I should get the knack pretty soon...

So thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to own such a beautiful effect, congratulations for your creativity and workmanship, and let’s hope that you will strike again in a near future!

Simon Smile
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J M Talbot
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Payner44 sent me a photo of his and his thoughts.... it convinced me to order one as well. An idea for a presentation hit me today that I am excited to try! Will share with any purchasers that are interested once I have had a chance to field test it Smile

Great to hear that you are impressed as well Simon.

I ordered the black version which really reminds me of "bakelite" clocks from the 50's....

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bakelite+......&bih=760

The perfect look and feel for the presentation I want to do.

John
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