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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Is Coin Magic/Mentalism an Endangered Species? (26 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Art85y - for me the inclusion of "card trick" and "Xtube" have little to do with "sleight of hand magic."

If a sleight "smacks of trickery" then it was not done correctly, the objective being "never happened."

The moves you describe are mechanics, only elevated to a "sleight" if the are not even suspected.

I agree that skill demonstrations are not magic, but you provide no evidence that "sleights" are not an effective way demonstrating inexplicable phenomena

Anything observed on a video or any small screen minimizes any use of psychological ploys on which many sleights rely.

But you say this in comparison with "actual magic." Could you provide an example of what you mean as actual magic?

Besides, the OP addressed coin magic. Why talk about card tricks at all?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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art85y
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Funsway, I went from the OPs topic to Card tricks involving sleights because, imho, a large number of coin tricks involve sleights so there is a link which may be relevant.

By 'actual magic' I meant as seen by, and as perceived in the mind of, the spectator/audience member. Personally I groan inwardly when I see an Elmsley or a Flushtration etc. and have also always harboured a dislike for coin tricks (i do not use the word 'effects'). Even seeing a coin trick as a child I always knew I was looking at a skilled trickster not a magician, sure I was impressed just as I was by jugglers. My interest is mentalism so I confess a bias here and probably should not have entered the conversation.
Use the FORCE Luke.
funsway
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Nice objective for a performer to have magic "as seen by, and as perceived in the mind of, the spectator/audience member,"
but is not method minimal compared with meeting the expectation of observer?

If they expect to see something impossible occur, then the task is not to fumble the effort with sloppy reveals.

If they expect a demonstration of extraordinary abilities to enforce a believe in paranormal events, then any poorly executed sleight can be disastrous.

A "sleight" cannot be at fault, only the failure of the performer to execute or time it properly (never happened).

It might seem that you have never observed much "actual magic" - perhaps from watching Xtube with its limited and artificial perspective.
Good magic is often a total experience with gestalt support for other observers.

My best (most mentioned 20 years later) for coin, card and mentalism are events that never actually occurred except in the mind of the observer.
I created the conditions under which the impossible occurred as expected by them. Whether I used sleights, gimmicks or guile is secondary.

If good magic is endangered it is because today's audience have little expectations that it will occur, or is capable of recognizing it if it does.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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art85y
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Good points about the artificial perspective of on-line magic videos, I have probably not seen enough 'live' magic in recent years and my view may be becoming jaded.
One other point about on-line magic videos, and apologies if this has only limited relevance to the OPs question, is the ill thought out patter. The video I mentioned earlier the guy starts out by spreading the deck and saying (i'm not making this up, he said all of the following)...
1 - there is no set-up
1 - There are no marked cards
2 - The cards are not in any memorised sequence
3 - There are no repeating groups
even if the onlookers are not familiar with these terms, they WILL be looked-up and the damage is done. I even had cause to message a 'big name' dealer and performer for saying "no set-up" in his patter in an on-line video.

I have two words that many on-line video makers seem unaware of...REHEARSE & EDIT
Use the FORCE Luke.
bluejay17!
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Back to coin magic...
I think the way we should go about this is trying to find out what coins specs still use. You never see someone using a half dollar, but people still cary spare change like quarters and pennies. And aside from this, when coins do become extinct, we can find other things to use (rings can work for some sleights), or use them as a sort of curiosity, similarly to the way some magicians use wands or cups and balls. No actual cup looks like the ones magicians use, but the cups and balls has not gone extinct. As a sidenote, I don't think that anything will replace the tangibility of actual money.
Jonathan Townsend
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Coins, billets and mind reading - 1800

poker chips, post-its and mind reading - 2020

we're fine.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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