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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts 
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Art85y - for me the inclusion of "card trick" and "Xtube" have little to do with "sleight of hand magic."
If a sleight "smacks of trickery" then it was not done correctly, the objective being "never happened." The moves you describe are mechanics, only elevated to a "sleight" if the are not even suspected. I agree that skill demonstrations are not magic, but you provide no evidence that "sleights" are not an effective way demonstrating inexplicable phenomena Anything observed on a video or any small screen minimizes any use of psychological ploys on which many sleights rely. But you say this in comparison with "actual magic." Could you provide an example of what you mean as actual magic? Besides, the OP addressed coin magic. Why talk about card tricks at all?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Papa Legba Special user home-an unremarkable spiral arm of an insignificant galaxy 750 Posts
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Funsway, I went from the OPs topic to Card tricks involving sleights because, imho, a large number of coin tricks involve sleights so there is a link which may be relevant.
By 'actual magic' I meant as seen by, and as perceived in the mind of, the spectator/audience member. Personally I groan inwardly when I see an Elmsley or a Flushtration etc. and have also always harboured a dislike for coin tricks (i do not use the word 'effects'). Even seeing a coin trick as a child I always knew I was looking at a skilled trickster not a magician, sure I was impressed just as I was by jugglers. My interest is mentalism so I confess a bias here and probably should not have entered the conversation.
Use the FORCE Luke.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
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Nice objective for a performer to have magic "as seen by, and as perceived in the mind of, the spectator/audience member,"
but is not method minimal compared with meeting the expectation of observer? If they expect to see something impossible occur, then the task is not to fumble the effort with sloppy reveals. If they expect a demonstration of extraordinary abilities to enforce a believe in paranormal events, then any poorly executed sleight can be disastrous. A "sleight" cannot be at fault, only the failure of the performer to execute or time it properly (never happened). It might seem that you have never observed much "actual magic" - perhaps from watching Xtube with its limited and artificial perspective. Good magic is often a total experience with gestalt support for other observers. My best (most mentioned 20 years later) for coin, card and mentalism are events that never actually occurred except in the mind of the observer. I created the conditions under which the impossible occurred as expected by them. Whether I used sleights, gimmicks or guile is secondary. If good magic is endangered it is because today's audience have little expectations that it will occur, or is capable of recognizing it if it does.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Papa Legba Special user home-an unremarkable spiral arm of an insignificant galaxy 750 Posts
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Good points about the artificial perspective of on-line magic videos, I have probably not seen enough 'live' magic in recent years and my view may be becoming jaded.
One other point about on-line magic videos, and apologies if this has only limited relevance to the OPs question, is the ill thought out patter. The video I mentioned earlier the guy starts out by spreading the deck and saying (i'm not making this up, he said all of the following)... 1 - there is no set-up 1 - There are no marked cards 2 - The cards are not in any memorised sequence 3 - There are no repeating groups even if the onlookers are not familiar with these terms, they WILL be looked-up and the damage is done. I even had cause to message a 'big name' dealer and performer for saying "no set-up" in his patter in an on-line video. I have two words that many on-line video makers seem unaware of...REHEARSE & EDIT
Use the FORCE Luke.
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bluejay17! Regular user DC 120 Posts
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Back to coin magic...
I think the way we should go about this is trying to find out what coins specs still use. You never see someone using a half dollar, but people still cary spare change like quarters and pennies. And aside from this, when coins do become extinct, we can find other things to use (rings can work for some sleights), or use them as a sort of curiosity, similarly to the way some magicians use wands or cups and balls. No actual cup looks like the ones magicians use, but the cups and balls has not gone extinct. As a sidenote, I don't think that anything will replace the tangibility of actual money. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Coins, billets and mind reading - 1800
poker chips, post-its and mind reading - 2020 we're fine.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Is it normal for non magicians to carry both a US half dollar and an English penny? Or, these days, either? People seem to find the old coins interesting anyway.
I agree with others that presentation has a lot to do with it. Christian Chelman's Jack the Ripper routine has a fantastic justification for all of the unusual coins.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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bluejay17! Regular user DC 120 Posts
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I never use ordinary coin. I have lived overseas so I use that to justify having optimal coins.
-Elisha |
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 1, 2018, IMAGINACIAN wrote: After more than 3 years, I am getting more of the same uneasy answers.....
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2351 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, IMAGINACIAN wrote: From whom? Coin magic, and especially sleight of hand coin magic is alive and well. Lots of new folks doing pure SOH stuff on Facebook and YouTube... Some good, some not so good. My biggest gripe is most are just doing "watch this" quick tricks - an issue that runs across the board, not just limited to coins. It's been 3.5 years. In 3.5 more years you'll likely hear more of the same "concerns". People should be less "concerned" and just go out and DO. |
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inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2351 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 22, 2019, Papa Legba wrote: That's "thinking like a magician". If _done properly_, both appear to the spectator as if you're just casually displaying the cards. Perhaps your beef is with poor execution and not the sleights themselves? |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4674 Posts
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There are several coin/mentalism effects in Rubinstein Coin Magic.
1. The Mentalist (as described can be modified to use in a parlour setting as well as close up). 2. May the Force be With You 3. My Coin Collection 4. Conviction Prediction 5. Conviction Prediction, and some Magishin 6. The famous Three Coin Trick 7. Simplex Positive Negative
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9530 Posts
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A couple of really good coin/mentalism effects that I have had years of fun with are…
Ultimate Positive Negative and Fading Coin. Nothing difficult, but both very clever presentations that bring together a coins and mentalism presentation that packs small but plays so doggone BIG! 😁 I’ve been doing both tricks for many years now, and they are unique tricks that I bring out for those special situations when I want to leave specs absolutely scratching their heads. And that it has some interesting usage of coins, 😉 well, that has always been a top-selling point for this decent-at-best coin guy. 😊
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb 
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, inigmntoya wrote: Sorry for not being more specific. I was specifically referring to my point no. 1. I am finding that my audience members, even on virtual shows are no longer carrying any loose change with them. I am still able to borrow bills but not coins. Probably increasing digital payments could be the reason. People carry their digital wallets on their smartphones and just a few bills as back up. Loose change seems to be completely out. And as far as point no. 4 goes, I see very very very few today.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, Michael Rubinstein wrote: Hi Michael, I am a great admirer of your fantastic work. But you are more of an exception (and a legendary one at that) rather than the rule, especially these days, as far as coin magic goes.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts
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And so, as I mentioned in another thread, for the past few years, I am only having sleight less coin mentalism effects (quite good ones though) on me like Inspyring coin by Unknown mentalist and Coinspire by Sven Lee. But both these are specially made coins and far from regular borrowed coins.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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kardillusions Special user Calgary, AB 544 Posts
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Rick Holcombe and John Carey have both contributed "mental magic" coin effects to The Hermit Magazine, and they're both published in the new February 2022 issue. You can check it out on Lybrary.com or directly from www.hermitmagic.com
"Cerebral CSB" is an ungaffed copper/silver/brass coin routine from Rick Holcombe where the spectator has a free choice to name any coin. Coin(s) teleport based on the spectator's wishes. "Equicoins" is another ungaffed routine with any five coins and a bill by John Carey. It doesn't say it in the magazine, but those five coins could in fact be borrowed pocket change. The spectator makes all of the decisions, and at the end the performer's prediction of the coin settled upon is revealed to be correct. Scott. |
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atroc New user Toronto, Canada 18 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, inigmntoya wrote: I think this is definitely due to a medium shift. Magic used to have to be done in person, but with TikTok/Instagram gaining so much popularity, you only have so much time to grab someone's attention before they scroll away. I think lots of new magicians take this idea and try and apply it to in-person situations as well. Quote:
On Jan 9, 2022, IMAGINACIAN wrote: I think borrowing anything from the audience is always hit or miss and ultimately situational. There may have been more leeway in the past for sure, but that doesn't mean coin magic itself is irrelevant or on the way out - just that you may need to rework some plots. |
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gregg webb Inner circle 1564 Posts
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I think you can still pull out old coins in a formal show, and call them Antique Coins. They are so beautiful compared to the new coins, that there is an instant interest and if the magic is good any patter about an old wizard who once owned them can ring true. As far as mentalism, I don't know why it wouldn't fly if done well. Also "metal-ism"...the bending of spoons forks and keys, still interesting if done well.
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Is Coin Magic/Mentalism an Endangered Species? (28 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jun 22, 2019 09:31 pm 
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