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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Is Coin Magic/Mentalism an Endangered Species? (27 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Art85y - for me the inclusion of "card trick" and "Xtube" have little to do with "sleight of hand magic."

If a sleight "smacks of trickery" then it was not done correctly, the objective being "never happened."

The moves you describe are mechanics, only elevated to a "sleight" if the are not even suspected.

I agree that skill demonstrations are not magic, but you provide no evidence that "sleights" are not an effective way demonstrating inexplicable phenomena

Anything observed on a video or any small screen minimizes any use of psychological ploys on which many sleights rely.

But you say this in comparison with "actual magic." Could you provide an example of what you mean as actual magic?

Besides, the OP addressed coin magic. Why talk about card tricks at all?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Papa Legba
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Funsway, I went from the OPs topic to Card tricks involving sleights because, imho, a large number of coin tricks involve sleights so there is a link which may be relevant.

By 'actual magic' I meant as seen by, and as perceived in the mind of, the spectator/audience member. Personally I groan inwardly when I see an Elmsley or a Flushtration etc. and have also always harboured a dislike for coin tricks (i do not use the word 'effects'). Even seeing a coin trick as a child I always knew I was looking at a skilled trickster not a magician, sure I was impressed just as I was by jugglers. My interest is mentalism so I confess a bias here and probably should not have entered the conversation.
Use the FORCE Luke.
funsway
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Nice objective for a performer to have magic "as seen by, and as perceived in the mind of, the spectator/audience member,"
but is not method minimal compared with meeting the expectation of observer?

If they expect to see something impossible occur, then the task is not to fumble the effort with sloppy reveals.

If they expect a demonstration of extraordinary abilities to enforce a believe in paranormal events, then any poorly executed sleight can be disastrous.

A "sleight" cannot be at fault, only the failure of the performer to execute or time it properly (never happened).

It might seem that you have never observed much "actual magic" - perhaps from watching Xtube with its limited and artificial perspective.
Good magic is often a total experience with gestalt support for other observers.

My best (most mentioned 20 years later) for coin, card and mentalism are events that never actually occurred except in the mind of the observer.
I created the conditions under which the impossible occurred as expected by them. Whether I used sleights, gimmicks or guile is secondary.

If good magic is endangered it is because today's audience have little expectations that it will occur, or is capable of recognizing it if it does.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Papa Legba
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Good points about the artificial perspective of on-line magic videos, I have probably not seen enough 'live' magic in recent years and my view may be becoming jaded.
One other point about on-line magic videos, and apologies if this has only limited relevance to the OPs question, is the ill thought out patter. The video I mentioned earlier the guy starts out by spreading the deck and saying (i'm not making this up, he said all of the following)...
1 - there is no set-up
1 - There are no marked cards
2 - The cards are not in any memorised sequence
3 - There are no repeating groups
even if the onlookers are not familiar with these terms, they WILL be looked-up and the damage is done. I even had cause to message a 'big name' dealer and performer for saying "no set-up" in his patter in an on-line video.

I have two words that many on-line video makers seem unaware of...REHEARSE & EDIT
Use the FORCE Luke.
bluejay17!
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Back to coin magic...
I think the way we should go about this is trying to find out what coins specs still use. You never see someone using a half dollar, but people still cary spare change like quarters and pennies. And aside from this, when coins do become extinct, we can find other things to use (rings can work for some sleights), or use them as a sort of curiosity, similarly to the way some magicians use wands or cups and balls. No actual cup looks like the ones magicians use, but the cups and balls has not gone extinct. As a sidenote, I don't think that anything will replace the tangibility of actual money.
Jonathan Townsend
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Coins, billets and mind reading - 1800

poker chips, post-its and mind reading - 2020

we're fine.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
critter
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Is it normal for non magicians to carry both a US half dollar and an English penny? Or, these days, either? People seem to find the old coins interesting anyway.

I agree with others that presentation has a lot to do with it. Christian Chelman's Jack the Ripper routine has a fantastic justification for all of the unusual coins.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
bluejay17!
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I never use ordinary coin. I have lived overseas so I use that to justify having optimal coins.

-Elisha
IMAGINACIAN
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Quote:
On Jun 1, 2018, IMAGINACIAN wrote:
Of late, I've been having an uneasy feeling that coin magic, especially coin mentalism, is heading towards extinction. I would really love to be wrong. I travel quite a bit. Here are some facts which may be contributing to this.

1. In many countries coins are slowing going out of common circulation. People are simply not carrying loose change anymore. Magicians/Mentalists are increasingly finding it difficult to borrow coins freely from audience members.

2. Hardly 5% of all new magic released relates to coin magic. Even that is generally expensive. So looks like new ideas in coin magic are now very few and far between.

3. Generally, coin magic is sleight intensive and works best in close up. So probably the new generation of magicians is no longer wanting to specialize in this branch.

4. Is any coin magic specialist making good money these days, still?

So my question is - is there any way interest in coin magic/mentalism be revived among the new generation of magicians? is there any other way this enormous coin magic legacy is not finally lost on us?

PS: Although I do not do much coin magic, I've always loved watching and been fascinated with coin magic/mentalism


After more than 3 years, I am getting more of the same uneasy answers.....
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, IMAGINACIAN wrote:
After more than 3 years, I am getting more of the same uneasy answers.....


From whom?

Coin magic, and especially sleight of hand coin magic is alive and well. Lots of new folks doing pure SOH stuff on Facebook and YouTube... Some good, some not so good. My biggest gripe is most are just doing "watch this" quick tricks - an issue that runs across the board, not just limited to coins.

It's been 3.5 years. In 3.5 more years you'll likely hear more of the same "concerns". People should be less "concerned" and just go out and DO.
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On Jun 22, 2019, Papa Legba wrote:
Personally I groan inwardly when I see an Elmsley or a Flushtration etc.


That's "thinking like a magician".
If _done properly_, both appear to the spectator as if you're just casually displaying the cards.

Perhaps your beef is with poor execution and not the sleights themselves?
Michael Rubinstein
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There are several coin/mentalism effects in Rubinstein Coin Magic.
1. The Mentalist (as described can be modified to use in a parlour setting as well as close up).
2. May the Force be With You
3. My Coin Collection
4. Conviction Prediction
5. Conviction Prediction, and some Magishin
6. The famous Three Coin Trick
7. Simplex Positive Negative
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC SPECIAL:
I HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF COPIES AVAILABLE TO BE SIGNED, AND COME WITH A SPECIAL FREE GIFT! If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com
Mb217
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A couple of really good coin/mentalism effects that I have had years of fun with are…

Ultimate Positive Negative and Fading Coin. Nothing difficult, but both very clever presentations that bring together a coins and mentalism presentation that packs small but plays so doggone BIG! 😁

I’ve been doing both tricks for many years now, and they are unique tricks that I bring out for those special situations when I want to leave specs absolutely scratching their heads. And that it has some interesting usage of coins, 😉 well, that has always been a top-selling point for this decent-at-best coin guy. 😊
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
IMAGINACIAN
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In Your Thots
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, inigmntoya wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, IMAGINACIAN wrote:
After more than 3 years, I am getting more of the same uneasy answers.....


From whom?

Coin magic, and especially sleight of hand coin magic is alive and well. Lots of new folks doing pure SOH stuff on Facebook and YouTube... Some good, some not so good. My biggest gripe is most are just doing "watch this" quick tricks - an issue that runs across the board, not just limited to coins.

It's been 3.5 years. In 3.5 more years you'll likely hear more of the same "concerns". People should be less "concerned" and just go out and DO.


Sorry for not being more specific.

I was specifically referring to my point no. 1. I am finding that my audience members, even on virtual shows are no longer carrying any loose change with them. I am still able to borrow bills but not coins. Probably increasing digital payments could be the reason. People carry their digital wallets on their smartphones and just a few bills as back up. Loose change seems to be completely out.

And as far as point no. 4 goes, I see very very very few today.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
IMAGINACIAN
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In Your Thots
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2022, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
There are several coin/mentalism effects in Rubinstein Coin Magic.
1. The Mentalist (as described can be modified to use in a parlour setting as well as close up).
2. May the Force be With You
3. My Coin Collection
4. Conviction Prediction
5. Conviction Prediction, and some Magishin
6. The famous Three Coin Trick
7. Simplex Positive Negative


Hi Michael, I am a great admirer of your fantastic work. But you are more of an exception (and a legendary one at that) rather than the rule, especially these days, as far as coin magic goes.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
IMAGINACIAN
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In Your Thots
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And so, as I mentioned in another thread, for the past few years, I am only having sleight less coin mentalism effects (quite good ones though) on me like Inspyring coin by Unknown mentalist and Coinspire by Sven Lee. But both these are specially made coins and far from regular borrowed coins.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
kardillusions
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Rick Holcombe and John Carey have both contributed "mental magic" coin effects to The Hermit Magazine, and they're both published in the new February 2022 issue. You can check it out on Lybrary.com or directly from www.hermitmagic.com

"Cerebral CSB" is an ungaffed copper/silver/brass coin routine from Rick Holcombe where the spectator has a free choice to name any coin. Coin(s) teleport based on the spectator's wishes.

"Equicoins" is another ungaffed routine with any five coins and a bill by John Carey. It doesn't say it in the magazine, but those five coins could in fact be borrowed pocket change. The spectator makes all of the decisions, and at the end the performer's prediction of the coin settled upon is revealed to be correct.

Scott.
www.hermitmagic.com
Hermit Magic Magazine
Instagram: @hermitmagicmag
Subscribe today!
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