The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » What DL would you advise a beginner to study? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Mike Walton
View Profile
Special user
Chicago
984 Posts

Profile of Mike Walton
I have a good friend that has been into magic and has more skill with the presentation/patter/poise/misdirection of magic than he does with the technical handlings and sleights associated with cards.

He's been struggling with nailing a DL consistently, and I wanted to get the take from the Café on what is a good bread & butter DL that is clean, relatively easy to nail each time, and doesn't require a difficult get-ready.

I use a strike DL but that me took months and months of daily practice for me to nail it cleanly and consistently. I originally started with a right handed biddle style using the left thumb to turn. The biddle is easy and with some misdirection, clean (I guess most magic is cleaner with misdirection.)

What DL would you advise a technically challenged card magician to study?

Before this thread receives a lot of posts with the same theme of "he should practice more" and "he needs to put in time to respect the art", he does practice and he respects the art of magic but he just needs a DL that's a little easier. Whaddya say?

Also, if you mention a DL, please also note where it can be referenced.

Thanks tremendously in advance for your responses.
NeoMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
I have...
2017 Posts

Profile of NeoMagic
There might be something useful in this thread:

Double Lifting any easy way?
See and download my latest free card-suits-themed desktop wallpaper | HERE
Richard Tremblay
View Profile
Regular user
Québec, Canada
118 Posts

Profile of Richard Tremblay
I would suggest Derek Dingle Double Lift in The Complete Work of Derek Dingle.

This double is relatively simple to learn, requires no get ready and look natural.

Richard Tremblay
NeoMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
I have...
2017 Posts

Profile of NeoMagic
Quote:
I use a strike DL but that me took months and months of daily practice for me to nail it cleanly and consistently.


Have you tried LePaul's handling - I believe it was his (see Card Magic of LePaul). LePaul's method was to contact the double at the lower right corner, slide the fingers along the edges of the two cards up toward the top right and then turn the double over. If anything it affords an opportunity to make sure the double is fully squared before flipping it over and also if you don't catch both cards during the first strike you've got some extra time to pick up the second card as you run the finger along the edges. Hope that makes some sense.

Quote:
I originally started with a right handed biddle style using the left thumb to turn. The biddle is easy and with some misdirection, clean (I guess most magic is cleaner with misdirection.)


Sounds somewhat like the Vernon Double Lift. Has your friend tried this one?
See and download my latest free card-suits-themed desktop wallpaper | HERE
Mike Walton
View Profile
Special user
Chicago
984 Posts

Profile of Mike Walton
Excellent Neo. I'll refer him to that link. It seems the thread discusses get-ready's and a couple of DLs, along with the smattering of "must practice more" posts.

The DLs that are specificially referenced are from RRTCM, ECT, and Mark Wilson's book. Do you recommend any others for the technically challenged?
Paul Chosse
View Profile
V.I.P.
1955 - 2010
2389 Posts

Profile of Paul Chosse
Learn the Vernon DL described in Stars of Magic. Another, and better, description is available as the addendum to a Ron Bauer pamphlet - "The Mechanical Deck". Even if he doesn't use the trick, the sleights he will learn from the RB book are well worth the ten bucks...

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
JordanB
View Profile
Special user
dallas, tx
645 Posts

Profile of JordanB
I have to say the Vernon Double lift is great, there is also a chapter on it in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic. My favorite double is based on the Vernon Double and is called the Flash Double. It is in Bob White's lecture notes which are worth every penny of the money. It also has great info on palming from a small packet, the depth illusion, the Gemini Count and many other useful moves that focus on uniformity of action, and naturalness.
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18559 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Whatever is used, try to make it look the same when not doing a double... learn one that is natural to the way you turn a card over singly.

Watch out for anyone seeing the end of the card and how it is thicker when a double. Cover that.

Don't rush. Learn it well.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
wsduncan
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
3618 Posts

Profile of wsduncan
The Le Paul handling is pretty simple and the Jenning's Snap double is too. Both are mechanically easy enough that the physical aspects can be mastered in a short time by a person with average motor skills.

The real work (sorry Pete) on the double lift is to learn not to look at the pack until the card is already face up. There is no reason to watch what you are doing when you turn over a card. It's not an act that requires much attention. Plan your presentations and effects so that people are looking at you (say something to them) instead of the cards. THEN look down at the card after it's face up and attention will go there. Nothing to see and nothing to hide.

Once the card is face up the natural curve of the cards makes it relatively easy to turn it back down without a get ready (the so-called Lyn Searles autobreak). This is the point at which attention to the card is more appropriate and misdirection of attention more likely to be noticed.

Teach your friend that the best double lift is the one that isn't noticed.

And for fun investigate Lee Asher's Diving Board Double and Carmen D'Amico's Snapover Double. Both are flashy one handed techniques which you can use when you want to make your fellow magi cry.
ABlair36
View Profile
Loyal user
Toronto
234 Posts

Profile of ABlair36
The most important thing about a double lift is for it to look exacly like your single lift.

I would suggest double take for learning all about double lifts and holding a double. I'm sure he'll find something easy and normal-looking there.
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18559 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Uh, that's the Reel Works... Smile
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Gianni
View Profile
Special user
WILMINGTON, DE
992 Posts

Profile of Gianni
Quote:
On 2004-04-29 08:04, Richard Tremblay wrote:
I would suggest Derek Dingle Double Lift in The Complete Work of Derek Dingle.

This double is relatively simple to learn, requires no get ready and look natural.


I'm surprised that you're recommending this DL. The poster has already rejected a strike double as taking too long to learn. This DL is a strike double using the ring finger instead of the forefinger. I think most people would agree that it is tougher to learn to strike with the ring finger than the forefinger.

Gianni
chrisrkline
View Profile
Special user
Little Rock
965 Posts

Profile of chrisrkline
Doubles are funny. I find the Strike very easy, but I have students who couldn't turn over one card like they would with the strike if their life depended on it. Someone here said the Snap was easy. I worked on that one off and on for a month, and never could get it to work well. Besides, you end up turning the card over (in the Snap) like you would with the Strike, so why bother. Unless you really work at it, it is easier to get two cards with a Strike then you can with a thumb or pinky count. But to each his own. But definitely get Wilson's Double Take. Besides the info on Doubles, there are some good effects on the video. He does a great variation on Daley's Last Trick, one on Jumping Gemini, and a number of other nice effects.
Chris
andre combrinck
View Profile
Special user
South Africa
953 Posts

Profile of andre combrinck
I agree with JordanB,Dai Vernon's method gets my vote.It's easy,deceptive and natural.
Andre
NeoMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
I have...
2017 Posts

Profile of NeoMagic
Quote:
On 2004-04-29 19:02, Pete Biro wrote:

Whatever is used, try to make it look the same when not doing a double... learn one that is natural to the way you turn a card over singly.


Not everyone will agree, but I've always quite liked what Harry Lorayne had to say about this:

"I have had many discussions with card men who said that the DL must be done just as you would ordinarily turn over one card. Well, I agree up to a point - that is, the audience must see only one card. But, I can't agree that it must be turned or dealt as you would ordinarily turn or deal one card. We sometimes tend to get too technical over things a lay audience doesn't really give a darn about. In the middle of a routine, I seriously doubt if the layman stops to think, 'Ah hah, he didn't turn that over the way he should.'" (Close-Up Card Magic, p.52)

Food for thought.
See and download my latest free card-suits-themed desktop wallpaper | HERE
davidtan
View Profile
New user
50 Posts

Profile of davidtan
Where would be the best place to download the snap double from? (preferably not a dvd, as I've spent quite a bit on them recently!)
magic_tom1
View Profile
New user
Tampa, Florida
87 Posts

Profile of magic_tom1
I see no reason with squaring the cards and getting a break, pattering for about 15-30 seconds, then doing the turnover. I recommend Paul Daniels' turnover style, in which he turns the card over like a book and keeps it on top of the deck.

However, the pinky count, if executed properly, is magnificient as well.
Magic Tom
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Simply Amazing!
dmk_kirkland
View Profile
Loyal user
256 Posts

Profile of dmk_kirkland
For a beginner I would normally suggest the Strike method. Since this was precluded in the original post - simply push over two cards and pull them back obtaining a left pinkie break while doing so. You are then pretty much free to execute the turnover in your favourite manner.

That said, what you now lack in technique now has to be made up with in theatre and structure. This should be built into the routine and not just added as an after thought.

An alternative technique suggested by Vernon is to deal off the top card into the right hand and motion with it. While doing this obtain a break under the top card. Return the original top card and you have your break. This also needs to be motivated within the context of the effect you're performing.

Good Luck.
Cheers,
David
M Pitcher
View Profile
Elite user
Around the block
427 Posts

Profile of M Pitcher
Andre first Double I learned was the Vernon method , easy to learn for a beginner and looks very good in my opinion ...
Glenn
View Profile
New user
Seaford, Sussex, UK
80 Posts

Profile of Glenn
Lewis Jones has a great DL (Lift Off), in his book Ahead Of The Pack.
No fiddling.

It has served me really well.

Glenn
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » What DL would you advise a beginner to study? (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.61 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL