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J.Manninen
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Kardmechanic-

I'm not familiar with marlos master grip cant say is it or is it not it

basically I hold the deck only with first finger, all other fingers are free.

and there is no push out (get ready) I just pull rhe card out with my right hand finger ( first or second depends what kinda deal I am doing ) its silent and you don't need to move your left hand fingers much


english isn't my speciality I'm sorry if you didn't understand anythign
Paul H
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Hi J.Manninen,

How on earth to do get the bottom draw to be silent? I'm beginning to feel I'm the only one who struggles with the variable scrap and swish sound when drawing bottoms. Any tips greatfully appreciated. Either that or its a new thread in the secret sessions section!

Regards,

Paul H
T. Joseph O'Malley
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I enjoyed the part of the book "Phantoms of the Card Table" where Walter Scott describes how Joe Sinatra did the following: "Joe Sinatra is a "mouth". It helped him. he'd get everybody to laugh by saying a joke, that's why he beat everybody because while they are laughing he'd deal off the bottom. That was Joe's misdirection."

Maybe you get your bottom deal to be more silent by refining technique, and applying misdirection as above. Where will you be doing your bottom deal? In a church where it's silent? In a hall where lawyers are writing the the bar exam, and it's dead quiet? If you're talking about "demoing it" for magic buddies, and they know what to listen for, well, I guess you've told them what you're going to do and tipped them off already. If you're talking about using it in a trick for laypeople, hopefully you're in a room where there's chatter, airconditioning units, background music, etc to help cover the noise - and as long as your dealing visually appears natural you should be ok. If you're talking about using it in a game, might I suggest loading the jukebox up with quarters or putting on a fan or cracking a joke as above? And knowing where the closest exit is, just in case.
tjo'
Kevin Ram
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Do what I do in a game.

Have a ghetto blaster on the seat next to you and turn it on, on your deal.When you have finished your deal turn it off.

Also, when you deal the bottom to yourself, cough as loud as you can.They wont hear the B/deal as the cough will cover it.

Kukram Smile

by the way,i was caught last night.I don't think I turned the music up loud enough Smile

p.p.s.-if someone says 'Hey, your cheating.you just dealt of the bottom.

You say' How dare you!- that was a center deal I'll have you know'.. Smile
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
Paul H
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Thanks scarfidi7, I think! It would however, be nice to get the bottom deal to sound similar to the tops being dealt. I'll continue to work on it as always. 'The Phantoms of the Card Table' I've been holding off on this one but no longer. Yet another hit to the bank balance but still, all in a good cause.

Hi kukram, if you got caught then I fear I have little chance at the present time.

Regards,

Paul H
Kevin Ram
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After a lot of trial and error regarding sound the best way to overcome it is this.

Its gonna sound obvious but this is how I went about it-

Take deck in hand.Deal the bottom in slow motion but exactly the same way you would dealing fast.

You are gonna hear the noise come from certain areas.

if you hold the deak in your left hand the noise will come from the long left side scraping.Deal in slow motion and try pulling the card off at different angles.You will find there is an angle of taking the card where it doesn't scrape.

Also I keep my fingers fairly straight so they don't push the card against the deck.Take the B/card with a light touch.Its difficult but practice will help.

So, to sum up.Do it slowly and change your hand positions and the angle which you remove the B/card.

When you have found it slowly build up speed.

You need to get the angle of taking the bottom card in your mucsle memory before you pick up speed or you will go back to the other way of doing it.

Try these tips.

Its all I can think of right now.

Kukram Smile
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
Paul Chosse
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Quote:
On 2004-07-30 20:48, Dexpert wrote:
Talking of underground "work"..does anyone here know what a Pan deck is, how to obtain one, and what it is used for? I know the answer to all three questions but I just thought I would throw this out to see how many of you guys knew!


Panguini...

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Kevin Ram
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Quote:
On 2004-07-31 21:00, Paul Chosse wrote:
Quote:
On 2004-07-30 20:48, Dexpert wrote:
Talking of underground "work"..does anyone here know what a Pan deck is, how to obtain one, and what it is used for? I know the answer to all three questions but I just thought I would throw this out to see how many of you guys knew!


Panguini...

Best, PSC
Isn't that an Italian dish?
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
slakk
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I think it is spelldt Panguingue.
Kevin Ram
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Doc if your there.

How's business?
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
Unknown419
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Kukrak

Slow as usual.

You know I was just thinking, if I went to this Las Vegas magician's gala this Aug. 22 etc. what would these guys want to see me do? I only have three specialties and everything else is basically even with everybody else's move. Just thinking out loud here.

Doc
tonto
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Doc, I did not know about the convention, but I will be in Las Vegas from August 18 to August 30. If you decide to go this convention, You will have an opporunity to play Raz, draw, holdem and lowball in the different casino card rooms.

Most often, I play at the Mirage (table stakes holdem.) If you have the abilities you claim, you should have no difficulty winning large amounts of money. I know that from time to time all of the Vegas casinos catch cheaters, but I doubt that they all get caught.

Furthermore, you will not experience any discrimination. The players are not concerned with the color of peoples skin. Their only concern is the color of the players' money.

It would be a pleasure to see you work, and if you get away with winning by cheating, I will pay you for private instruction. Of course your fee would have to be reasonable. My lawyer charges me $400.00 an hour, and evertime I call him, it costs me at least $75.00 and all he does is write contracts.

If I can pay a lawyer $400.00 an hour, I can certainly afford to pay you comparable money for personal instruction.

However, I am from Missouri, you have to show me. You do not have to beat the table stake games. If I see you cheat a $5.00 limit game, its good enough for me. I just want to see you cheatem and beatum.

By the way, in cruising the Internet and reading books and articles, I have encountered certain terms with which I am not familiar. I would greatly appreciate your definitions and comments.

What is meant by these terms "the spread", "hand mucking", "watermellon punch" and "playing the cap." Also, I heard a Las Vegas holdem dealer state: "he threw off the b.r." He also talked about "using a submarine", is this another term for dealing from the bottom?

Tonto
Kevin Ram
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Quote:
On 2004-08-01 23:13, Unknown419 wrote:
Kukrak

Slow as usual.

You know I was just thinking, if I went to this Las Vegas magician's gala this Aug. 22 etc. what would these guys want to see me do? I only have three specialties and everything else is basically even with everybody else's move. Just thinking out loud here.

Doc


In Phantoms of the card table walter scott went to a convention and demo'd his dealing and magicians wern't that impressed.

I think because magicians expect a show, an act of somesort.

Thats why scotts performance wasn't that well recieved.

But I don't know about today's conventions.I have never been to one or any magic club or gathering.

There will be other members here who could give you a bet idea than me.Im sure there will be some there interested as there are many here at the Café.

But I'm sure there are many who would like to discuss moves and just talk about cheating in general

Thanks

Kukram
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
Tielie
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A little story by me:

I play darts for a hobby, and between games, me and some guys (5 or so) play a cardgame for maybe 5 euro's a night. I see this as an opportunity to see if my moves pass at a table. These guys know I can do stuff with cards so they watch me like a hawk. I didn't know they watched me like that, and I tried a bottomdeal once, to give myself an ace. Which makes me just about invincible in the game we play Smile

One of the guys saw I did this and he said: "Tiel, just deal from the top will you?". I realised I been caught and said: "does it matter?"

He knew I dealt from the base, but was surprised by my responce. It didn't come up in his mind I might know what card was there, so I went free. He said: "just don't do it anymore". And on we went.

Lesson I learned that night: don't deal from the base with a worn deck. Just run up some cards, lot easier.

:)
Deal cards, not drugs!
T. Joseph O'Malley
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Hi Tielie:
There's an old adage that says "if suspected, quit" or something to that effect. Erdnase, I believe.

The big problem with the scenario you just described is that you don't have your #1 cheating weapon available to you when you play with those guys - not bottom dealing, not hand mucking, etc, but rather the weapon of not being suspected. There's no point in really trying your skills in that environment, in my opinion.

The scenario you give and your response sounds similar to something mentioned in Arthur Buckley's "Card Control", so you're thinking like an old time pro!
tjo'
Tielie
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I'm not in it for the money, just for fun. And I think there is no better environment for me to test my skills then with my buddies. I know they suspect, so if it passes them, I must be on to something. And second, I won't get beaten if I get caught. maybe they don't want me to play anymore, but I can live with that. They will have forgiven me in a week Smile
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Unknown419
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Kukram I know that a bunch of people would come up to me and ask questions after the show but just like Walter Scott's demonstration wasn't well received, mine wouldn't be either and I know if I was in a game with them I would have won their money.

How can one prove that you just did a gambling move if the audience didn't see you when you done it? They can easily say that you're just saying that etc. Now when you say that you're going to demonstrate what you did, everybody is watching you like a hawk.

I need advice or I need to seek advice in this area.

Signed Just Thinking Out Loud

Doc
Tielie
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You are obviously an expert on the cold deck moves. You could switch decks with one card face up, and after the switch, show the backs of the cards have changed or something. I think many, many magicians would pay just to see you. I know I would.

DOC: I like to hear your opinion on the wonderfully talented Kif Chan.
This guy (www.kifchan.com) is the one of the best false dealers I have seen to this day but his technique seems very rushed and not what one would expect in a game. I would be suspicious if this guy dealt me my cards. He seems almost agressive when dealing, not relaxed. Would his technique arise suspicion you think?

This post is NOT to attack Kif Chan. He is way more skilled then I am but I am just wondering if this is useable cheating stuff.
Deal cards, not drugs!
Randy Sager
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Doc I think it is possiable you would run into the same problem that Walter Scott had. But by the same token if you were booked into a convention and the heads of the convention advertised it correctly I think it could work and no one would be dissapointed. Of if you were to just hang out at a convention and got into a small group that would maybe be the best bet at first. Let word of mouth spread and then see what happens.
Kevin Ram
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Im sure that most would be happy to listen to your experiances as a real cheat and maybe a short demo.

And more so as your a black hustler as you have to work in different places to a white cheater as you say.

That would be of interest to many.

I said it before, about righting a book about your years of hustling.You could change names e.t.c that can't go public.

As with the Phantom book, I was more interested in the stories.Although I enjoyed forte's comments and the moves.I would have bought it without these.

As it was an exciting read.

Something to think about

Kukram
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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