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Perris, California
105 Posts

I keep hearing about that guy that uses discs for three card monte. This is like the third time. He must be really good.
What do you mean it came from the bottom of the deck?
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Chicago USA
352 Posts

Profile of Yiannis
He works around Picadilly and Leicester Square. And he works with female shills the last time I saw him. Very deceptive and luring Smile
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782 Posts

Profile of DaveM
Yep Yiannis, I remember him using one female shill in particular. She "won" like three times in a row. Then there was the overconfident sucker tourist that immediately followed her and lost like 60 quid on one toss. OUCH! Gotta love it.

The manner in which he held the two discs flush in his hands basically made it impossible to tell which one he tossed at any one time. It was fascinating to watch him work the crowds.

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59 Posts

Profile of vernal
Oops! I was not clear in my post above. The person Jimmy Breslin was writing about was "Claudia Albetta, who lives far over on West 43rd Street", who is the daughter of someone named "Nicky the Snake". I have no relation to them, I just thought the article was on topic.
"Finger-flinging has about as much relation to magic as a Jazz Band has to Music." - J.B. Bobo. (I don't agree with the jazz comparison, but I still think the quote is funny.)

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Profile of Mar
I did a Google on "The Lone Ranger." There was an episode titled "The Cooler" in which The Lone Ranger and Tonto must win enough money in a high stakes, pass the deal, poker game to pay the ransom for the mayor's daughter. A cardshark wins all the money by switching decks, but is bushwhacked on the way out of town, where he is rescued by Tonto. They cut their wrists and become blood brothers. Doc thanks Tonto and gives back the money, as Tonto tells him he could not switch decks in a tough game. They argue about this for the next four episodes. Doc says "if we are going to argue this much we might as well be married". They were last seen riding off into the sunrise on their way to Boston.
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Profile of J.Manninen
I'm With Tonto 100%

Those moves would never go thru in real card game......

At least I would immediately see those moves... it's so easy to see.. When deck changes color it must be a Cold Deck.. or other Sleight which doesn't belong to Honest Gambling table.


( Is this what Tonto is worried about ) LOL
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Las Vegas, NV
1681 Posts

Profile of JasonEngland

I have first-hand knowledge of Steve Forte and Darwin both stating that Doc's cold deck moves are incredible. While they were non-commital on whether or not they thought the moves would pass every single time and in every game, they each stated emphatically that they thought the moves would fly under the proper circumstances. Steve told me this in January and again in July of this year and Darwin told me in April of this year in Sacramento. Since I'm not giving out their email address or phone numbers, you're going to have to trust me on this.
On a related note, Darwin immediately told me of a video tape in his collection where a guy in a casino constantly picks up a cut deck and puts it back together in the wrong order (so that no cut took place) all night long. This was in a cardroom in (I think) Southern California. Apparently this went on for hours and no one says a word at the table.

If that can fly, then I've no doubt Doc's cold deck moves can fly. Maybe not every time, but enough to make a living at it. The thing is, those moves look great when you're watching. How good do you think they look when you're not?

I've also had the pleasure of showing both Phil Helmuth and Chris Ferguson (both World Series of Poker champions) some card moves at the Shade premiere.

Both of these gentlemen expressed the opinion that they would be helpless agains me at the card table, simply because they couldn't see the moves (push-throughs, Zarrows, stacks, hops, deals, etc).

Now, I don't consider myself anything more than an above-average mechanic with no real-world cheating experience beyond nickel and dime games with friends.
So if I can get 2 World Series champs to admit they'd be helpless against me, then how would they fare against the Doc?

The answer is he'd crush them. Because Doc doesn't play poker, he plays cold-deck.

But the point is, these 2 World Champs didn't say, "Oh, we know that one", or "I've seen that before." With the exception of a few standards like bottom deals and push-throughs, they had never seen the large majority of the moves before. This just goes to show that not all "real" poker players are hip to the possibilities with a deck of cards. I went to high-school with Chris Moneymaker (another World Series Champ) who was a year or so behind me. Could I beat him on the square? No way. Could he beat me in a private game where I supplied the cards and got to handle them? No way.

And the majority of Doc's opponents can't spot his stuff either. It's a simple as that.

Jason England
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Profile of DanHarlan
Let's play.
When would you and your experts like to fly out and take on Doc?
I'll meet you there.
--Dan Harlan
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Profile of Mar
Jason I believe what you said about Forte and Ortiz comments about Doc.

Do you know what Forte or Ortiz mean by the term "proper circumstances." An example or two would help in this debate. Even Tonto agreed that under the proper circumstances("albeit with duffers and dummies") Doc's cold decking would work. Doc has stated that he does this by himself with 7 or 8 players.

I was under the impression that a lot of the poker players in Vegas would be unable to protect themselves from being cheated in an informal setting where strict casino cardroom procedures were not followed where the deal went around. Do you think this is a correct impression?
Kevin Ram
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Travelling through Europe
791 Posts

Profile of Kevin Ram
I have also seen those monte hustlers in londons lecister square.They were russian I think.

The shills were SO obvious.The people watching were even saying out loud they were stooges..ha

Because all the stooges had a russian accent....ha and they were wearing clothes that made them stand out a mile.It was run terribly but they still got people to play.

Some people knew they were shills and still played.

But the strange thing is they did pay out on a losing bet to a chinese guy.I think they took a bit off him so they paid a little out to keep him hooked.He wasn't a shill because the dealer gave him a funny look as if to say'your catching on to what I'm doing'.

But he got taking for more than he won.

They had look outs and when they signalled that the cops were lurking they would drop the piece of card board into the bin which it was resting on to clean up and then blend into the crowd.

I also saw them another time get caught by undercover cops.They got pushed up against the wall and searched.Dont know what happened then.

Even though it was terribly run they were still making quite a bit of cash.His handling of the moves was good but altogether not very well run.

you got what you asked for.Hope that has cleared things up.

As I have said in all my posts , evrything can be used under certain circumstances.And as Forte said on the GPS "its hard to spot a move when your just not looking"
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
15911 Posts

Profile of tommy
Hi Doc

I am sorry to hear you down on your luck at the moment and I did not mean to rub it in by calling attention to Hong Kong Wong. I just was trying to make the point that it is possible to do moves even under the Eye in the Sky and get away with it, as Wong proves, yet some argue such things can not be done, not even in private games. What say them to Mr Wong?

Another point they try to make, is that card sharks are never without money. What say them to W.S. Erdnase, the most famous card cheat ever, whose motive for writting his book Expert at the Card Table was, as he said, "he needs the money".

With regard to work at the card table, it is only a matter of opinion what could fly or not. Steve Forte, for instance, could perhaps give an expert opinion but it never becomes a fact just because he thinks it. Even if a move has flew at the card table many a time you will find someone with the opinion that it will not fly in his or others company. They might be right or wrong but when they are wrong they will never know as they become another unknowing sucker.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Profile of Tielie
I am so proud of my own thread Smile
I love to read this stuff and I really hope the DOC will meet up with Tonto.
Deal cards, not drugs!
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