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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » How long between ring vanish and appearance? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Philip Busk
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Vanish a wedding ring. Perform some other tricks. It appears in nest of boxes; or other impossible location.

How long do you think it's acceptable to keep the ring away from the owner? How much does it enhance the illusion for a period of time to pass between vanish and appearance?

Working on a part of an act that incorporates some comedy by play involving the ring being gone.
Philip Busk
Mark Williams
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Personally, I would never use anyone's wedding ring. I always carried a small box of rings with me and had the spectator choose one for use. They get a free choice of rings and if anything goes wrong...well it's not their ring that could possibly get damaged.

Should you perform a trick like you describe, the spectator is left with trepidation. As far as they are concerned...the trick has no resolution. That's NOT a very good feeling to have. Why would you want to put a spectator through that kind of anguish? If you don't respect your audience, then they will never respect you.

Mileage may vary for you. I would not perform such an effect.


Best Magical Regards,

Mark Williams
"Once is Magic!! Twice is an Education!!"
Philip Busk
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Thanks for the input Mark. I meant to remove the word wedding...so,
How about the same question minus wedding; asking for a ring...possibly a band (no stones.)


My initial thoughts for this routine were for an intimate audience who know me (and possibly trust me Smile but let's expand it out to a paid performance for strangers.)
Philip Busk
Bill Hegbli
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It all depends your routine. If for instance, you did the ring in ball of yarn, then the time is filled with the huge ball of yarn being unwound, down to the small box containing the ring. If you don't have an idea how to enhance the mystery, you have to search for something that will fit you.

In the case of the nest of boxes, again, it will depend on how many boxes you use, and the time it requires to open each one.

As far as impossible location, try John Shryock's Ring in Walnut effect. He sells his DVD on his website.

It involves opening a Lemon, inside the Lemon, is an egg, inside the egg is a Walnut, and inside the Walnut is the spectator's ring.

It really has nothing to do with "how long", but do you have a "routine" that can keep the audiences attention and entertained until the reveal and climax.

It could even be as simple as the ring appearing in your wallet, or the new Nest of Purses that have been so popular on the Café.

It all has to do with what you want to do as an effect. That is why it is so important to browse magic websites stores and find an effect that my suit you. Yes it is time consuming, and also fun and educational. I could list a number of effects, but all you would say, is "I don't like that" or "It isn't my style." Only you know what you will like, and fits your personality.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Philip Busk
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Thank you for the input Bill. I appreciate it. I didn't do a very good job explaining in my first post (busy day). I plan to use a set of nested boxes. I plan to borrow a ring. I plan to vanish it and have the rough outline of a comedy (ish) routine worked out witht eh culmination being the production from the nested boxes.

I had the thought of putting a few different routines in between the vanish and the reproduction that would have call backs to the vanish. Example-torn and restored paper with an ad about sales on rings that have been lost or destroyed...

I'm specifically interested in others experience with borrowing a ring and how long they keep it (vanished/destroyed/etc) before the final reveal. I've performed similar routines with peoples money where I had their money for the whole 45 min act. In this case I think keeping a personal item like a ring requires a shorter hold time but the built up tension of keeping the ring will build on the drama/comedy. Where is the balance? Experience will tell but some input may help me get a jump on it...or prevent me from ruining someones evening because they fretted over their ring for too long. Smile
.
BTW - I love browsing; been doing that for about 40 years now. I love new and old ideas and love adapting them to me. I doubt I would have said "I don't like that" or "It's not my style." Probably would have just said thanks. But, I've seen those replies from many a poster who didn't seem to appreciate the wisdom and experience of some of the people that are kind enough to share on this forum.
Philip Busk
Bill Hegbli
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Philip, I think this will only cause a lot of anxiety on the lenders part. Not good as the longer you take to return the ring, the more a woman would begin to freak out. Women charis their jewelry a lot, and I don't think that would be a good idea to prolong it. Now if was a cheap adjustable finger ring, that is another story, but she probably would not care that much.

A man may be a different story.

You mentioned an example of a bill, a bill, even a $100 bill is very different then thousand dollar finger ring.

You have some good ideas, but with such a precious item, you may be surprised at the reaction, and that may not a good reaction. You might be okay with teenager's ring, or a woman that has say 10 rings on their fingers. Also silver is not as expensive as gold, so look for that as well, although white gold, can be mistaken for silver as well.

It may be best to talk to the lender, and comment on the ring, and ask what it represents to her.

It can be a slippery slop, unless you are willing to replace the item at the show in cash.

Some performers have people that will lend a ring hold up their hands, and volunteer, that way you can actually see the ring they are offering, and bypass any that look to fragile for your effect.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Philip Busk
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"You mentioned an example of a bill, a bill, even a $100 bill is very different then thousand dollar finger ring."
Most definitively...hence my homework.

Great advise/ideas on determining the value and sentiment of the ring.

Just yesterday I was commenting on my sons wedding ring and realized borrowing a mans ring may be a better choice. The comedy may even come from some byplay with the wife...all respectfully and tastefully done.
Philip Busk
Bill Hegbli
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So good to hear you are putting the needed thought into such an effect.

Good luck.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
warren
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I perform my version of a borrowed ring on string routine where the ring ends up vanishing and appearing in a box that has been held by a spectator from the beginning when I first introduce myself to the table, in that context the ring is revealed quite quickly as it's appearance is part of the routine.

Whilst not quite the same I also perform a routine with a borrowed bill which is vanished, however I then go on to perform another routine before producing the bill from it's impossible location so I guess it's all down to how you routine the effect.
Mark Williams
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Hi Philip, I still believe that the longer you keep a vanished ring (signet or wedding) spectators will not like where the presentation is going. Getting to the reveal of their cherished possession should be within a minute or two. Any longer and other audience members may join with the chosen spectator and start to question you.

Again, I do not see any comedy in keeping someone's ring for the entirety of your show. It's just not cool!

If I had to put a time limit on it (1-2 minutes max). Getting the ring to an impossible location should really be an immediate reveal (my honest opinion).

Best Magical Regards,

Mark Williams
"Once is Magic!! Twice is an Education!!"
Wravyn
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A question for you to ask yourself, if you loaned your ring to be used, how long would you wait for a resolution for it to be returned?

A reappearance in an impossible location IMHO, shouldn’t take very long, no matter the byplay. The longer the time between vanish and production, the less magical.
Philip Busk
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Thanks for the responses.

Mark, I've given the presentation more thought and agree about what the loaner and audience might think and the issues of how long between varnish and reveal. The comedy aspect isn't worth the high price of losing the effect. I've got it down to 1 to 2 minutes (at least on paper so far). You've made me think through and create a better path forward; at least I think so, we'll see when tested in front of an audience.

Wravyn, part of the problem for me in this, "A question for you to ask yourself, if you loaned your ring to be used, how long would you wait for a resolution for it to be returned?" is I probably wouldn't care. But I'm thinking like a magician and not a normal spec so this dialog really helps.

I've done many a vanish/reappearance and agree they shouldn't take long but exploring other avenues (in this case more comedy over effect) can be an interesting exercise.
Philip Busk
warren
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Quote:
On Sep 6, 2018, Wravyn wrote:

A reappearance in an impossible location IMHO, shouldn’t take very long, no matter the byplay. The longer the time between vanish and production, the less magical.


Wravyn that's a very good point as some of the impossibility is how fast the ring gets to that impossible location with nest of wallets being a prime example.
Philip Busk
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Wanted to follow-up and say thanks again for some valuable advise.

Still a work in progress but here's what I've done successfully. Borrowed mans wedding band. Had wife bring up and hold the ring under cover for a wedding test where husband is asked to answer some silly questions about the ring. Vanished ring at end of comedy byplay and within a minute found in nest of boxes on other side of stage.

I'm finding, in my mind, the nest of boxes is too much of a puzzle. By the time you start opening the boxes I think a thinking audience knows where it's going. I'm working out a surprise ending but it's in it's early stages.
Philip Busk
chosen1
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This thread is a blast. I think it helps prove a really important point. Everything we do should be thought about deeply and from our audience's POV.

IMHO I actually think that if you call attention to the ring missing that your audience will remain comfortable. I don't think it would work as well if you presented it as a magician as trouble, but if you have a level of confidence and make some jokes to make sure they know you haven't forgotten, I think it could be pretty funny. But I think it requires a quite specific presentation that might not work for everyone.

As for the puzzle aspect. Is there any way that you can make them almost certain that you're going to pull out a different vanished object from the box? Maybe whatever you were using to cover the ring? Because that object is yours you could be much more concerned about getting that back. You make it seem as if it's going to reappear in the fist (I'm assuming the cover is a handkerchief) so that's what they are focused on. When that doesn't happen and you go to the box they assume it will be the cover. Maybe you can even have the ring appear wrapped neatly in a duplicate cover, so you can get an extra beat and surprise. They believe the trick is over... but wait there's more.

Thank you Mr. Busk for bringing up a great post. You took yourself out of the equation and took only your audience's experience into account. Bravo!

Best,
Brandon.
We should all be in a constant state of wonder
Frank Yuen
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Is this a close up situation or stage? In a close up situation is the spectator at the table with you? If so, I think it would be fine to wait even to the end of the set as the spectator is still up there with you as part of the act. If it's a stage situation, I think the spectator might get a bit anxious. As long as you say something like, "We'll get back to your ring later" or "I didn't forget about you" throughout the rest of the show you probably will be okay. The spectator will be reassured by knowing that you will be getting back to their ring at some point.
judeh
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Quote:
On Sep 4, 2018, Bill Hegbli wrote:
It all depends your routine. If for instance, you did the ring in ball of yarn, then the time is filled with the huge ball of yarn being unwound, down to the small box containing the ring. If you don't have an idea how to enhance the mystery, you have to search for something that will fit you.

In the case of the nest of boxes, again, it will depend on how many boxes you use, and the time it requires to open each one.

As far as impossible location, try John Shryock's Ring in Walnut effect. He sells his DVD on his website.

It involves opening a Lemon, inside the Lemon, is an egg, inside the egg is a Walnut, and inside the Walnut is the spectator's ring.

It really has nothing to do with "how long", but do you have a "routine" that can keep the audiences attention and entertained until the reveal and climax.

It could even be as simple as the ring appearing in your wallet, or the new Nest of Purses that have been so popular on the Café.

It all has to do with what you want to do as an effect. That is why it is so important to browse magic websites stores and find an effect that my suit you. Yes it is time consuming, and also fun and educational. I could list a number of effects, but all you would say, is "I don't like that" or "It isn't my style." Only you know what you will like, and fits your personality.



Is this something I make, or do I need to purchase g___ lemon/egg/etc.?
ringmaster
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"A veek".
Merlani
Less than 2% of reported UFO's turn out to be actual interplanetary vehicles.
Wravyn
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On Jun 2, 2019, ringmaster wrote:
"A veek".
Merlani

Ahhhh... Max Malini ... but I thought that was about doing a pass?
funsway
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I recall as story about Houdin in which he borrowed a ring from a French noble and vanished.
They wandered to the garden and dug up the noble's favorite rose bush, The rings was entwined in the growing roots!

In anticipation, the magician replaced the valuable wring with a substitute - then buried it the garden THREE YEARS before the performance.
So, the answer isn't "time between" vanish and appearance. It is a matter of anticipation and impossible result. Planning help too.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
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