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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Yup!
I've asked to be banned
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Adrien L. Elite user 479 Posts |
[quote] On Oct 7, 2018, Adrien L. wrote:
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On Oct 6, 2018, IAIN wrote: Quote:
On Oct 7, 2018, false_awakening wrote: English is not my native tongue, so I might be missing something here... to me, "no paper INVOLVED" is not the same as "a paper on the table BEFORE the reading"... |
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2018, Adrien L. wrote: Actually YOU said it's a "study on how to connect with people"...and it's a starsign divination. I would argue that if you're having trouble connecting with people that the primary way to overcome that is to spend some time connecting with people. I had AWFUL social anxiety for many years and when I started doing readings I studied many methods that claimed to help build rapport, connect with people. My viewpoint years later is that it was and is all BS. I connected with people because a) I was actually likeable despite not realising this and b) Since childhood people have spoken to me candidly because they feel they can trust me. They were things I already had and anything I studied tended to put people off. I'm speaking from my own experience if that isn't clear and I don't think I need to read your book to comment on some of the claims you're making. Mentalism is pretty boring. Recently there's attempts to make it more interesting thru emotional connections and all kinds of schmoozery. For me, that's missing the problem. I hold Chan Canasta in the highest esteem as someone to model. I suspect he could have spoken to anybody about anything in an interesting manner. This made his mentalism all the more compelling. He "connected" with people because they were interested in him. Can that be learnt by studying? Perhaps, I don't know for sure. What I do feel very strongly about is that it's something you can only learn most effectively thru experience in life. |
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Adrien L. Elite user 479 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2018, David Numen wrote: That's wrong. I did say it's a study on how to connect with people. And, in that study, there's a star sign divination, but that's not everything the book is. The book is not A star sign divination. You would understand if you've read it. But it's easy to go all "I have so much experience" and ramble away in the entitlement that you think this so called experience gives you... What's less easy is to take the time to read something and forming an educated opinion. And, as much as you are experienced, you do need to read the book to comment on the contents of the book. What else can you complain about? No one has taken offence with the cover yet... want to go there next? FFS... |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Adrien...
i'll try and explain it from my POV 1) you mention on here and in the pdf about nothing is written down and how in some cases that's all there is to it. However, in the video demo, you DO write something down near the end and use it as the finale 2) you mention in the PDF about psychometry A-Z, and how you like to use your intuition and go for it, but after a while have found the same 3 words come to mind most of the time when performing this. You say that you should just let the words come to you - which is fine - but you also say you end up using the same 3 words most of the time. So really, you ARE currently using a more formed system/set of words. 3) you say the star sign reveal is only part of it, but it takes up around 50% of the entire performance, and you do end on the star sign as the reveal, that's the ta-dah of the conversation whether you like it or not! Its the ending that gives you the reason for the conversation in the first place. so from my POV, that's what has been confusing and contradictory...
I've asked to be banned
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2018, Adrien L. wrote: Dear me...actually I had practically NOTHING to say about your book, I just chipped in because Sudo said some stuff that REALLY resonated with me about mentalism releases in general. I commented on that but you couldn't let it lie and had to chip in taking it personally so THEN I did say something about your book because that's the kind of guy I am. Luckily for you, mentalism and magic are both full of seekers of "what's new" so no matter what I say or what Sudo says or what Iain says or what ANYONE says, you will probably find you still sell stuff. I've had friends who are still afflicted by the "what's new" syndrome contact me about a new release and I've read between the lines of the copy and told them what it's likely to be...or I've seen something involves memory work and the friend isn't at all into that so I advise against it...but that knee jerk "what's new" reaction overwhelms and they STILL buy whatever it is they're asking about...and then find out I'm right....and we go thru the cycle again. Anyway, Doctor Who is about to start so ssssshhhh. |
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Adrien L. Elite user 479 Posts |
I understand all points you made, IAIN, and I don't think you're wrong, for what it's worth, but let me give you my take on each of them.
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On Oct 7, 2018, IAIN wrote: I don't understand your fixation with something being written on paper. Just because you can do something propless, doesn't mean you have to. Yes, sometimes I use that as a reveal, if I feel like it. By the way, there is no "video demo", there are a few PRIVATE videos for people who bought this (3 full performances, to be exact). I sent you ONE of those and I think you can see that I've cut the video after the reveal, although the performance kept going on. Quote:
On Oct 7, 2018, IAIN wrote: Yes. The point being? Quote:
On Oct 7, 2018, IAIN wrote: Again, what you saw was one of the many, many performances. And the video is cut, so although the video ends there, there is more to the full performance, but I didn't feel like adding more subtitles, so I stopped the video there. And there's also more of it before the video starts. The video only exists for the benefit of people wanting to see how the star sign reveal plays in real life. Even if you were right about all of those points, I don't see how any of them could be considered a negative point or going against the ad copy... |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Ah well, I tried!
I've asked to be banned
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
Why can’t these Mentalism posts be moved to the correct forum?. A penny for your thoughts.
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dyoung Special user 898 Posts |
Because this is where they will create sells...
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2018, pegasus wrote: its in the right area...its where the hype is generated, Penny isn't for that (though it is sometimes)… JAFI was a 'latest' release at the time...
I've asked to be banned
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2018, David Numen wrote: Thank-you for the thoughts David. I'm relieved that there at least still some people remaining out there who understand what I was addressing. I honestly didn't come here to try and score points against anyone and that should be obvious from the very first point I made to Ed, where I basically said "Just filter it out" in a good-hearted way. But Adrien and his ego had to get his nose all out of whack over it and he couldn't even see that I was actually trying to help. Anyways, the thread's here for people to see how things progressed from there. Well, just when you think he can't get any more foolish, Adrien thinks that my blocking and removal of him from my Facebook is the key to his defense as he can use it as a grounds to establish some sort of prejudice. Bad move Adrien. I was a gentleman and tried to avoid bringing up that situation so that you could save some face which is why I didn't even bother bringing it up until you forced my hand. You told me, Adrien, that you were "not ok with me believing that" - or at least, that's what you posted here publicly. But when you PM'd me, you went right back to being the phony sad person that I had experienced before. And not only that, you weren't concerned one iota about how I was feeling and "me not believing that". Not at all. You were immediately going into damage control and demanding proof. Well, I asked you to simply admit that you had been playing games and trying to "gaslight" me on facebook - I have his messages. That's all you had to do Adrien and I would have considered things settled. But you refused and then resorted to personal attacks and playing stupid and feigning indignity as if I'm some idiot who hasn't been around the block more than a few times to be able to see through the games you were continuing to play. I told you that if you didn't want to apologize, that we were at an impass. I further told you that I would leave this alone and that I wouldn't reveal the real nasty details provided you leave me alone and just stop it. I gave you chance after chance Adrien. And you STILL kept it up. And now I come today and read this thread and find that now you're doing the same with others. So...in that case, you've forced me to reveal what really went on there. Here's the FULL truth of why Adrien was blocked and removed from my FB. Adrien's little group of "creators" that he hangs out with are all of the same ilk and breed. A lot of them take offense to my opinions because I am from the old school of thought and I call an ace an ace when it needs to be said. Long story short, I have both blocked and banned several of his friends on FB for their shenanigans and gaslighting. Shortly after banning a certain friend Adrien suddenly sends me a friend request. I have a good feeling I know what he's up to, so I set things up so that I can watch and see - hoping that he's not going to do exactly what I suspect he will. And what do you know? He does it! He starts gaslighting me and then talking poorly about Peter Turner (a person whom he professes to admire) and how Peter supposedly lacks social tact etc. Now isn't that ironic? So I see all this and I think to myself "Not only is he gaslighting me, but if this is how he talks about supposed friends, who needs enemies?" And that is the REAL reason why I booted and then blocked him. I didn't want to say it because it's crappy and just rubbish, but that's the reason. And I have the messenger conversation saved where he says these things. It's not as though what was said was really terrible things, but it was certainly more than enough to speak volumes about his character. Oddly, he still asked Peter to comment (or whatever) on The Jaffi Read. What I said in my earlier post about making "real connections" with people is how I actually feel based on what I've learned from the almost 39 years spent in this art. And feeling this way, you can easily see why I was even more annoyed with Adrien's puffery about making "real connections." Walk the walk if you're gonna talk the talk. Now having said this, I await the almost guaranteed slew of personal attacks to start. And that's ok. Because there's even more here to reveal...if I'm forced to. |
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Adrien L. Elite user 479 Posts |
Sudo... That's sad.
I didn't reply to any of your posts up until you posted your review, as I was aware you were trying to help (at least the very first post). And when you posted your review, the only remark I did was that your "unbiased" review might have not been that unbiased, that you had plenty of time to give me private feedback but, instead, you waited to voice your opinion publicly. There was no "key to my defense" (you admitted you weren't trying to score points, so why should I defend myself)... There was only a concern that your review wasn't as unbiased as you said (which, after your last post, should be clear). At no point in this thread have I said anything against you (except for the silly joke about interpreting what you wrote based on interpreting what you wrote, which was obviously just goofy and not meant to be taken seriously). As for our PMs, I won't discuss them in public. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
This is sad Adrien - I agree.
I said nothing to you that I wouldn't say publicly. I have no shame about expressing my feelings. Why should I? I have no reputation to protect. Reputation, is who people think you are. What people think of me, is frankly, none of my business. I forget that sometimes, but it's a good thing to remember. Especially if you want to get into this business. I told you before when I first left my thoughts on Jaffi that I wished you good luck and I meant it. I still do. It's just that if I say it now, after everything that's transpired - it'd sound meaningless. But I'll say it anyways: Good luck with this Adrien. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
As I'm prone to do sometimes, an off-topic thought here:
I have this great idea. It goes like this: What if I have a bad idea. Like, really bad. But I'll pretend it's good - or, as Trump would say "The best idea ever". And I'll write it up. Then I'll pay a few friends to give a glowing review of said craptastic release here in "Latest".... And then everyone can just go absolutely savage on it and rip it to shreds - and me as well. I mean, really, really, really, go at it good. Like a bunch of sharks in a tank would after throwing in a bloody steak. Unleash your hatred.. your fury. Join the dark side! - and all that. It would be kind of a great stress relief therapy for everybody wouldn't it? The only question I have, is whether to reveal that it's just a joke either upfront, afterwards, or never? |
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Adrien L. Elite user 479 Posts |
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On Oct 7, 2018, IAIN wrote: Somehow I missed this post, sorry. Honestly, I just try to feel the moment (not sure I'm any good at doing it, though). In the case of the video we were talking about, I felt it would work better in that way, for that girl, in that moment. I don't know if it would have been better to just let it out verbally, but I know that when I revealed what I've written, the girl gasped, so I guess it worked well enough. |
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dyoung Special user 898 Posts |
Could you use the Everest Envelope for this?
//Dan |
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Adrien L. Elite user 479 Posts |
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On Oct 8, 2018, dyoung wrote: Isn't the Everest Envelope a p**k envelope? The participant doesn't have to write anything down. In my opinion, unlike the performer using paper or not, the fact that the participant does not write something down makes the effect better (unless you compromise the presentation and/or deceptiveness of the effect, of course), so I'm not sure what you'd need the envelope for. |
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David Numen Inner circle 2070 Posts |
I think it'd make a wonderful combination using the Everest envelope along with the Jafi Read...you get them to write their star sign and you place the card in the envelope then just place the envelope down. No peek! Throws total shade over the procedure! And throws off those who know about propless stuff because you're using a "prop"..but you aren't. Genius dyoung!
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
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