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Maestro Special user 802 Posts 
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Who would win the money in a real cash game, Harry Lorayne or Daniel Madison?
Thanks, Maestro |
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ssibal Veteran user 352 Posts
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What game? Who else ( if anyone ) is playing?
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Peterson Regular user 159 Posts
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Doc
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Gamblingman007 New user 65 Posts
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Harry couldn’t get the money, Daniel Madison I’m not sure if he really ever played. Doc used to be able to get the money but since he haven’t played in a while I’m not sure if he could any longer. Not playing and not practicing will hinder anyone’s chances of winning.
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts
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What country? What place? What game? What environment? What stake? Casino? Private? Club? Partners? Single-o? Plastic cards? Cut Card? Cash? Chips?
There are dozens of factors. Dozens of cases. I would get every penny you have in my environment, I wouldn't move a finger in a casino. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 26, 2018, AMcD wrote: Oh, c'mon AMcD. You're talking about the real world...this is the Gambling Spot. I learned from the best experts on DVDs, on lecture webinars and in books. I have been practicing my Zarrow shuffle, Center and Bottom deals for the prescribed several years and they are undetectable and would get the money according to every "advertised" gambling expert (including make-believe hustlers and rounders) I have ever spoken with. Now are you suggesting that in a broader context, in order to use these moves in a real game, I have to take into consideration all these other factors and perhaps even more? Are you crazy? My moves are undetectable...I have fooled some of the top WSOP players with my demo moves. Further, I have a certificate of completion from the Rounders School of Hustling that says I am officially a "Gambling Expert." Are you trying to burst my bubble? Are you saying this is all different when hustling actual games? 
Quote:
I would get every penny you have in my environment, I wouldn't move a finger in a casino. AMcD, you have got to stop being so forthright. Objectivity on the Gambling Spot? Be serious. I can't handle all this real-world stuff. Keep in mind, objective reality is not my strong suit. (Oh, I think I'm going to have to take a nap after all this.) 
However...getting back to the specific question originally posed, (Lorraine or Madison?), Have you taken into consideration that Madison is an Erdnase Expert and has appeared on national TV. Come to think of it, Lorraine is a Memory Expert and also has appeared on national TV. Now I'm really confused. 
P.S. Nice to see you posting again AMcD. Why don't you make a habit of it? 
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Gamblingman007 New user 65 Posts
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Harry might can demonstrate a move but I actually doubt that he would have the heart to really do a move in a game, now demonstrating a move, yes. I’ve seen him in action so I’m not guessing what I’m talking about, I know what I’m talking about. I watched him many a times while I was studying with Gene Maze, Wesley James, Ken krenzel, Frank Garcia and the list goes on. Madison I never met.
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts
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Erdnase. Well if he were still alive I presume could
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 523 Posts
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Any of the above guys could get the money in a casino game, if they knew how. Magicians, particularly at The Gambling Spot, greatly over estimate and romanticise the amount of skill and sleight of hand involved in real world cheating.
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 319 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote: Genius level deduction.
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 523 Posts
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Badly worded, I feel. What I mean is, getting the money in a casino environment requires a small amount of knowledge, then having the balls to apply that knowledge. It's not a question of their sleight of hand skill, which I believe is what the OP was getting at.
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote: |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote: Well...do you know how to get the money in a casino environment? Have your ever done so? Okay, you are probably correct on your statement but for the wrong reasons. Also consider the fact that most people have no desire to cheat a casino. It is dangerous and not an easy task. Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote: ????? I think the hole you are digging yourself is getting deeper and deeper.  You almost have it. Successfully beating casinos over time does require knowledge and skill, sometimes considerable knowledge and skill. But it is different skill and knowledge. However, it is true that sleight of hand is little used at this level. However, sleight of hand is little used in casino poker games also. That doesn't mean that a great deal of knowledge and skill is not necessary. It in fact is...at least if one looks to be very successful over time.
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 523 Posts
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[quote]On Nov 2, 2018, Cagliostro wrote:
Well...do you know how to get the money in a casino environment? Have your ever done so?[quote] Yes. I work Surveillance at one of the busiest casinos in London. Investigating casino cheats is how I pay my bills. I see what gets the money. No, I have never cheated myself. I threw in the odd move here and there to get a feel for the timing and heat when I was still a dealer. A peek for no reason, a brief without knowing the identity of the slug,zarrowing one grab of a multi pass dilution shuffle. Stupid? Yes. Scary? As hell. Cheers |
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Bobbycash Special user Australia 694 Posts
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So this brings up a somewhat interesting point, yes there are some absolute maniacs that will go for the money on the boldest way possible, but is that characteristic of the modern day cheater? I for one have no idea. When I started learning about gambling I was mainly interested in the sleight of hand techniques, but over the years have progressed to learning the maths behind the various games as well as learning the strategy behind them. It’s taken a long time, and I’m not there yet as to being sophisticated with the games I enjoy (poker and blackjack...trying to learn Gin and Craps but some of the resources for this are difficult in terms of strategy). But I am afforded the luxury of it being a somewhat academic exercise (I don’t need/nor have the desire to put what I’ve learnt to the test), but I would be very interested to hear what people think the average/normal cheater is.
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote: Well it could be a question of sleight of hand skill, but usually not. Sleight of hand is not that applicable in the casino environment. Could be at times though. Cheats with a small amount of knowledge and big balls are called Yahoos or Desperados in my neck of the woods. They are always getting caught or bringing down a lot of heat on themselves. Since you work in surveillance, is it possible that the cheats you spot, more or less the obvious ones, are the only ones you spot. Do you think maybe, just maybe, some of the better or more sophisticated cheats, the ones with greater skill and knowledge are getting by you and perhaps going over your head at times. Just a thought of course and possibly something to consider. 
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 319 Posts
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On Nov 3, 2018, Cagliostro wrote: Before you (disgruntledpuffin) answer the question that Cag posited to you in his post ... remember that hubris is the bane of both hustlers, and those who believe they could never be hustled! Pro-Tip ... The correct answer to Cag's question is "yes".
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 523 Posts
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Mr Bones, although you said it in an unnecessarily condescending way, you are quite correct. Obviously my answer is yes. There are always cheats getting by surveillance in one way or another and I'm not arrogant enough to think we catch them all.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what we're debating here. The OP asked which of the three people would get the money in the real world. My answer? Any of them could. Most real world cheating in casinos is as rank as it gets. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with my position on this. |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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On Nov 3, 2018, disgruntledpuffin wrote: I agree. No question that Dan Madison, Harry Lorraine, DOC and Erdnase could get the money in the real world. Just look at all the moves they have demonstrated in books and on videos. Quote:
Most real world cheating in casinos is as rank as it gets. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with my position on this. I agree again. Obviously the really serious and subtle big money cheating occurs in home games, not in casinos. |
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 523 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, Cagliostro wrote: I can't work out if you're trolling me for your own amusement or if you actually think I believe that Harry Lorayne et al could walk into a casino do "moves", however that might be applied and walk out with money. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that MOST (go back and check, I actually used that word)casino cheating requires no skill whatsoever, just the requisite knowledge. I could explain a red/black or colour up scam to Harry Lorayne and we'd have a good chance of being able to pull it off that same day. |
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Posted: Oct 20, 2018 01:16 am 
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