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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Re-engaging leads that didn't hire you last time (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Nash
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Hong Kong ~ USA
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Hi gang

Hope everyone is ready for the busy holiday season.
Do you keep track of leads that didn't hire you due to scheduling conflict/budget/other reasons, but keep a note to ping them on email/phone a year later to see if they have entertainment needs this time?
For the longest of time I didn't re-engage with those leads, but I started doing it this year.
I'll simply reply to our email thread from last year, remind the lead of our convo quickly and ask if they are planning the same event this year.
Sadly, the response rate is low. Most of the time the lead doesn't respond.

Wonder if anyone has a successful approach to digging into old leads for new gigs you can share with the people Smile
Cheers!
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

Corporate magician - Nash Fung
Donald Dunphy
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If you're trying to re-connect with a "prospect" (* I define that as someone who has expressed interest in your services, but never hired you) months down the road, and it's a B2B relationship, why not reach out to them by phone first, and then follow up with an email or mailing?

(I mention B2B, because I wouldn't necessarily call a birthday party mom "prospect" at her home number or cell number months after a conversation that didn't result in a booking. But I would call someone at a company, school, church, etc. -- B2B.)

- Donald

P.S. Here's one of my previous posts where I talked about definitions for "suspects", "prospects", "customers", and "clients." Note - it's an older thread.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......art=40#2

Part of the thinking was borrowed from the book, "Prospecting Your Way to Sales Success" by Bill Good. This is so you can understand where they are in your sales process or sales funnel, and so you can think about how much rapport you have with them. I don't embrace / agree with everything in his book, but it got me thinking.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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For me it is a matter of ROI on your own time. If you are spending a lot of time, or any time at all actually on it, that is time you are not spending on contacting people with a higher rate of return on your time. You only have SO much time at all and you need to think of your time as capital. Your time is a finite resource that you can not afford to squander. It is the MOST important resource you have as it is the one that absolutely can NOT be replaced! Use it wisely.

So no matter the excuse they choose to provide you with, if they have not booked in the past it seems like a less useful way to spend the time. Especially since you have no idea if the excuse they offer was in any way true. Maybe they were just trying to be nice and back out of the contract gracefully and simply could not afford your service. In this case you are spending time chasing things you can never catch unless you drop your price.

If there is very little success I would abandon the idea. That is just me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
charliecheckers
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I think the businesses we have and markets we work in differ greatly and impact if and how to approach leads that didn’t hire us. In the markets I am in there is great turn over in personnel as well as performers hired, so of course it makes sense to pursue such leads. I do so all the time, often with success. Additionally, the most coveted opportunities can be more challenging to get and persistence has paid off. I do like what Danny mentions about prioritizing time though, as I agree some pursuits can be poor choices.
Mindpro
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I agree. In reality, as I teach, there are four kinds and levels of leads, and these fall into the third category. I have a strategy that utilizes these leads and it can result in about a 7-10% return for most that I teach this to. As said above, it depends on the market and the reason as Danny stated.

If it was a money thing, that's one thing but there are many other reasons for them not booking you, especially in certain markets completely unrelated to pricing. So these have the best chance for a "second chance" booking.

So to directly answer Nash' question, Yes!
BrianMillerMagic
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I started doing this in my CRM a few years ago. When I get a client that decided not to book I have an "inactive follow up" automation workflow that checks in 3 months before the event next year. The response rate is low, as you say, but occasionally leads to a booking, and since it's automated, I never think about it. I just click one button when someone doesn't book (if it's the kind of event that recurs annually) and it goes into this workflow. Let's chat more at NACA West next week.
JoshLondonMagic
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Brian is spot on - Use a CRM to automate this along with automating contracts, thank you emails after a gig, etc.
Josh
Theodore Lawton
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Thanks for this thread. I Googled ROI and CRM. CRMs look like a great idea. I don't want to derail the thread talking about those, but glad to know such systems exist.
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day
Nash
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Hi y'all

Great thread, thanks for the input everyone.
Donald, I think calling isn't my strength Smile hence I tend to e-mail, plus most leads came in from e-mails anyway.
And if I hit 'reply', they can read the title and also our previous emails to refresh their memories.

W'up Brian. I use boomerang on gmail to remind me to follow up. The response is not an automated response though, I do take my time (albeit very quickly) to type a 3-4 sentences email to check in. I guess I'm curious to see if anyone has experience in crafting an re-introduction message that yields a higher rate of response from the lead.
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

Corporate magician - Nash Fung
Mindpro
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See, I think that is the problem for many. They don't put much time or effort into these types of leads (a quick email or a simple contact), whereas I believe they deserve more time, effort and attention because they have already been qualified as warm leads. I have a system in place for these.

I think it depends on how you view and perceive these within your business. For example, we view every lead as 3 possible bookings. So, for the sake of example, let's say you are charging $1,000 per booking (just a nice round number for the example), I view each of these leads as worth at least $3,000 (in reality more with my system). So to me, since these are already warm leads, they deserve some proper attention and an actual system of approach.

It is always easier to sell someone who is aware of who you are or that has already learned of your service than trying to attract someone new from scratch.

Also important is to know or remember why you didn't get the booking originally. Was it price, was it availability, did they not pre-qualify, was it not a good match, was it an improper venue?... there could be many reasons, so it is important to know this to determine how or in which way to proceed to re-approach them.
Dannydoyle
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If I got an automated response to try to book me after I declined it would not incline me to book.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
charliecheckers
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Also, it is not always wise to remind them that they already said no before. They may not remember why and just figure if no was a good idea then, it still is now.

Like so many things regarding interactions with potential clients, it really depends on business models. If your product is presented and marketed as a commodity it makes sense to do automated and email responses with very high output and very low close rate. If people are hiring you for your show and reputation, then a personal approach where the specific characteristics of the buyer and/or company are accounted for is preferable.
Carducci
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
If I got an automated response to try to book me after I declined it would not incline me to book.


Re-engaging past leads has made a HUGE difference to my bottom line. Doing this consistently for about two years was enough to enable me to quit a six-figure day job and pursue performing full-time as my sole source of income. That was years ago now and I've never looked back.

I honestly believe more people should actively re-engage past leands and there are two dimensions to this:

1. Defining a business process. Actually sit and map out what you do when you quote a gig, when you book a gig, after a gig etc. Map out the steps. Write them down. Then follow them. Brian has defined a process for handling leads that didn't convert and uses a tool to streamline the process. I do the same thing. It's a nice to have, but it's critical to define the process first.

2. Treat every interaction as part of an ongoing relationship, not a simple singe transaction. Be interested in the success of their event, even if you're not there. Build a connection over time. I love my business because every one of my customers wants to work with me, not the lowest bidder, not the person with the flashiest video. They know me, they like me, I like them, and they want to continue to work with me.

This is where I think the misconceptions come in around "automation." I may be completely misunderstanding Danny's intent (easy to do on a text-only internet forum) but I suspect he and I are picturing different definitions of an "automated response."

I get "automated responses" from my bank, or amazon.com. I send personalized emails. Yes, I have templates that I've polished over the years while I've tried to figure out the exact best way to phrase something. Yes, a computer might start with a template, merge in the recipient's information, and schedule it to be sent. But I like to review and personalize everything I send before it goes out. A thank you email to a client will detail specific things that I appreciated and noticed. It might include photos from the event etc.

Again, I think the key is to have a business process, and consistently follow it. I defined my process, and I'm totally in the driver's seat. Tools that help me streamline that process are great because I, personally, would really struggle to be consistent without them.
Dannydoyle
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Nothing you said differs from my pount of view. I don't understand why you felt the need to quote me here.

I'm also curious why people feel the need to give a resume? Seems odd.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Carducci
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Sorry my message seems to have put you on the defensive. Certainly not my intent. I'll say it again; misunderstanding happen easily, especially on a text-only internet forum.

I quoted you because you expressed an opinion that an "automated response" would be wasted on you. I wanted to share my experience that, not only was it not wasted, it was instrumental to building the relationships that my business thrives on. Given the topic of the thread, I figured my opinion was also germane. I quoted you since for two reasons: one, because It was your comment the sparked my interested in writing a reply to the thread, and two, because my intention was to contribute a contrasting opinion to yours. I'm not saying yours isn't valid (that's the great thing about opinions, they're ours), I just was contributing a different one.

I was also almost certainly projecting on to you (for which I apologize) misunderstandings I've come across in the past regarding so-called "automation." My words, to my client, with my approval, being sent automatically differs significantly to what many people imagine.

Finally, I would argue that sharing my personal experience of how profoundly effective the practice of "re-engaging leads that didn't hire you last time" and is not "giving a resume" but rather speaking in very specific terms to the value of "re-engaging leads that didn't hire you last time" and building relationships. I can't give the practice any higher endorsement than the fact that it made the difference between performing part-time and full-time for me.

So, again, I apologize for putting you on the defensive with my contribution to the topic and that the specifics of my endorsement of this business practice felt like I was gratuitously "giving a resume."

I will certainly continue to polish my communication skills before I venture to wade into the green waters of this board again.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2018, Carducci wrote:

This is where I think the misconceptions come in around "automation." I may be completely misunderstanding Danny's intent (easy to do on a text-only internet forum) but I suspect he and I are picturing different definitions of an "automated response."



Just so the rest of us are clear what are these varying definitions of automation? And what automation are you referring to? I think most think of some type of CRM, autoresponder, email sequence, etc.?
Dannydoyle
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If you send a personal response that goes out through an automatic system to get it out at a certain time I do not put that in the same category as an automated response. You are automating the sending aspect of it and not the content of it. HUGE difference.

So to be clear automated form letters make me not read them. If I get the hint that it is something you send to all your clients I'm done. It is that simple.

Auto responders work for many people. I just don't work that way. Nothing wrong with them. Simply not my style.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JoshLondonMagic
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
See, I think that is the problem for many. They don't put much time or effort into these types of leads (a quick email or a simple contact), whereas I believe they deserve more time, effort and attention because they have already been qualified as warm leads. I have a system in place for these.

I think it depends on how you view and perceive these within your business. For example, we view every lead as 3 possible bookings. So, for the sake of example, let's say you are charging $1,000 per booking (just a nice round number for the example), I view each of these leads as worth at least $3,000 (in reality more with my system). So to me, since these are already warm leads, they deserve some proper attention and an actual system of approach.

It is always easier to sell someone who is aware of who you are or that has already learned of your service than trying to attract someone new from scratch.

Also important is to know or remember why you didn't get the booking originally. Was it price, was it availability, did they not pre-qualify, was it not a good match, was it an improper venue?... there could be many reasons, so it is important to know this to determine how or in which way to proceed to re-approach them.


Couldn’t agree more! Read this again and again!
Josh
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