The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Trabucco Holdout (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Mine should be here anyday. I'll very excited about this because of the endorsements of people I respect ( Bill Malone, Mike Powers, Bob Kholer, etc. ).
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
truthteller
View Profile
Inner circle
2586 Posts

Profile of truthteller
For the record, re: Webster's definitions et. al, even in the magic literature a holdout does not necessarily refer to a delivery system. If you look at old gambling catalogs you will find "holdouts" that do nothing more than "hold."
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
I got it last night. It looks very clever.

The package say accessories are available at Elmwood. Maybe Paul can comment on that.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Enigmo
View Profile
Loyal user
215 Posts

Profile of Enigmo
I have seen and used both the F/K holdout and the Trabucco holdout and while it is true that comparing both is like comparing apples and oranges/hotdogs, I will do my best.

Advantage of the Trabucco vs F/K :

Less expensive.
It can be used on both sides.
It can be used with your sleeves rolled up.
The hands work independently of each other even though their movements need to be well choregraphed.
No attachments to change.
More than one different types of objects can be held.
The Trabucco is silent.

Disadvantage of the Trabucco vs F/K

You need a coat or a vest. The F/K can be used with a shirt. I guess it's also theoretically possible with a Trabucco depending of the style you want to project.

Much less versatile. The objects must attract to a ma****.

It always requires the same hand movements. The F/K can be operated with a wider range of movements.

It's passive. With the F/K, the objects can be disappeared visually. With the Trabucco, the objects have to be supposedly "transferred" to the other hand and then ditched on the holdout. Interestingly I find the Trabucco requires a choreography very similar to sleeving.

This might be related to my body size/length, but I find that with the Trabucco, I need to button my coat for the holdout to be at the right height.

I find that for the Trabucco to be effective, the movements required need to be slower. Mr. Trabucco does this very well but it might not fit everyone's style. I guess that, for me, the F/K was more intuitive to learn.

Comparable points:

Both can be transferred to another coat fairly easily.
Both have good DVDs. The F/K has a lot more DVDs because it has more to cover due to the nature of the holdout and the versatility it brings. The F/K DVDs are more entertaining.

Conclusion:

Both if mastered will provide great value. I am probably going to adopt half the Trabucco on my left side and the F/K on the right side...

I hope this helps.
truthteller
View Profile
Inner circle
2586 Posts

Profile of truthteller
Just to clarify, the FK holdout can be used on both sides of the performer's body.
Enigmo
View Profile
Loyal user
215 Posts

Profile of Enigmo
It's true; It can be installed on either side but it works on only one side at a time...
truthteller
View Profile
Inner circle
2586 Posts

Profile of truthteller
Yes, exactly. The first post made it seem like it was side dependant. Just wanted to clear that up. Thanks!
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Enigmo said it better than I could. Thanks!!!

The Trabucco DVD is excellent and very clear in instructions.

I use '64 silver coins in my work. They don't have those available yet, so I "think" they jumped the gun on this project. Anyone else???

Here’s the problem I have:

You can’t do the routines on the DVD. He uses a Copper/Silver routine and you don’t get that with the “coins” supplied. Paul, what gives???
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Paul Richards
View Profile
Regular user
142 Posts

Profile of Paul Richards
I think a few points need to be clarified here…

I believe that MagicChris is overstating things when he says, “You can’t do the routines on the DVD.” Every special item that is covered on the main sections of the DVD is included with the product. There is a BONUS ROUTINE called “3AM Spellbound”, that uses a special coin that is not included. The purpose of including this routine was to demonstrate how a little creative thinking opens the door to other possibilities with the Holdout.

We do plan on making other coins and components available within the VERY near future. There was no “jumping the gun"...this project has been in the works for a long time.

We choose to hold back a bit on the components because we did not want to imply that you needed to buy all sorts of other items. The included effects are all VERY good and there is NO need to ever buy anything else unless you choose to.

Finally, part of the reason that we introduced the item the way we did was to get more input from users in the REAL world. I believe this is a tremendously versatile utility tool. As with any device of this nature…there will be a great deal of personalization and individual approaches. We look forward to receiving your input...although it would be helpful if it were directed it to us.
Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Paul,
I think you have a great effect here. But, I believe if you show a routine, bonus or not, that needs a special coin and that coin isn’t included in the kit and it’s not even available separately at the moment, then the project was released prematurely.

I realize you could have left the bonus routine off the DVD and avoided comment on it from purchasers.

If the ad had said “gimmicked coins included, I most likely would have investigated further before purchasing because I use silver coins, sun/moon coins, etc. in my work.

This is just my opinion. Obviously you have heavy weights that have endorsed the product as is, so my comments should be taken in that context.

Thanks for listening.

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
magicday
View Profile
Regular user
179 Posts

Profile of magicday
I think the disadvantage of the Trabucco holdout, it requires the same hand movements all the times.

It is not a necessary tool if your are good at sleight of hand.

Between Trabucco and F/K holdout, I will go for F/K.
The only reason I don't order F/K just because of the prices. I hope they can offer special discount to the working magicians at the near future. Cheers
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
The F/K won't be discounted in order to keep the secret workings just that, a secret.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Larry Davidson
View Profile
Inner circle
Potomac, MD
5266 Posts

Profile of Larry Davidson
You'll probably see an astronaut walk on the sun before you see the F/K holdout discounted, and I think that's a good thing, not only to help keep the workings secret, but because I'm sure that F & K have no desire to alienate good customers who have already purchased. If they do discount, I'll lease a big guy named Nunzio to pay them a visit. Smile
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
BOb protects secrets and this is one way to do it. I support him on this!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Bob Kohler
View Profile
Special user
703 Posts

Profile of Bob Kohler
Please not Nunzio again! Not a chance the price will decrease, if anything they will continue to rise due to rising costs...

Same as houses and cars...everything seems to go up except our show fees.

I still haven't seen the Trabucco Holdout but I've used similar principles and the main thing to consider is if the choreography can be worked into the problem you're trying to solve.

My opinion is always use the best possibel solution to solve the obstacle. Certain problems will need Vic's solution.

I do understand MagicChris' opinion that everything should have been included. But from a manufacturers point of view, it's always a tough decision to figure out exactly what to include in a release.

There's is always a fine line that must be drawn due to costs and how useful each additional feature will be to the majority of the users. Tough decision.

I do know both men are men of ingegrity and are trying very hard to bring everyone a useful tool.

By the way, Jamie Schoolcraft makes a dynamite m******* coin. I've been a huge fan of the invisible force created. Thought can generate many ways to implement this force into objects that audiences know cannot possible be m*********.

Just my two cents...
www.bobkohlermagic.com

Home of the BK Pro Line
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
I for one am THRILLED that I’m the only one in my town that performs Bob’s U3F!!!!!!

Vic and Elmwood have a great product. I’m not slamming them. I just feel it was released prematurely. As you can tell by Bob’s posts and release, he takes the proper time in developing and releasing effects.

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
M Pitcher
View Profile
Elite user
Around the block
429 Posts

Profile of M Pitcher
Magic Day wrote :

"The only reason I don't order F/K just because of the prices. I hope they can offer special discount to the working magicians at the near future"

I wouldn't be happy when the price is going down , I payed the "full" price for the FK hold out , and I think , it is worth the price !
This would not be fair for the people who payed the "full" price .
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
I hope Paul will address the points I brought up. For the price this is being offered at, the coin needed for 3AM Spellbound should have been included. At the very least, it should be available separately and it is not. It’s like getting a yoyo without the string.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Dan Watkins
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
3027 Posts

Profile of Dan Watkins
RE: special coins being sold seperately - can't you seperately buy them from one of the custom coin guys?
Click to visit:
Image
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22652 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Quote:
On 2004-05-12 08:21, Paul Richards wrote:
I think a few points need to be clarified here…

I believe that MagicChris is overstating things when he says, “You can’t do the routines on the DVD.” Every special item that is covered on the main sections of the DVD is included with the product. There is a BONUS ROUTINE called “3AM Spellbound”, that uses a special coin that is not included. The purpose of including this routine was to demonstrate how a little creative thinking opens the door to other possibilities with the Holdout.

We do plan on making other coins and components available within the VERY near future. There was no “jumping the gun"...this project has been in the works for a long time.

We choose to hold back a bit on the components because we did not want to imply that you needed to buy all sorts of other items. The included effects are all VERY good and there is NO need to ever buy anything else unless you choose to.

Finally, part of the reason that we introduced the item the way we did was to get more input from users in the REAL world. I believe this is a tremendously versatile utility tool. As with any device of this nature…there will be a great deal of personalization and individual approaches. We look forward to receiving your input...although it would be helpful if it were directed it to us. Feel free to send your emails to service@elmwoodmagic.com.

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
http://www.elmwoodmagic.com


Quote:
On 2004-05-13 22:42, MagicChris wrote:
I hope Paul will address the points I brought up. For the price this is being offered at, the coin needed for 3AM Spellbound should have been included. At the very least, it should be available separately and it is not. It’s like getting a yoyo without the string.



I believe his post covered your question very clearly. He believes the price you paid is fair with the equipment you received. If you do not think it is fair, that is your opinion and you have a right to feel the way you do. I guess you would have been happier if he left off the 'Bonus' extra effect so you would not have known about it.

Sorry, no refunds one the secret is learned. Smile
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Trabucco Holdout (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL