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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Jen Kramer at Penn & Teller - which stack? (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Joeni
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I'm completely new to memdeck. Since awhile I'm working my way through RRTCM and Card College, but after I saw Jen Kramer at Penn & Teller Fool us, I was really blown away and have decided to start simultaneously with memorizing a deck. Now I know that there will be a long way to accomplishing things like Jen does, but I would like to seek for help before I start really hard into memorizing a deck. At the moment now I tend to Tamariz' Mnemonica, but is there anyone here who could give me a hint if the Mnemonica stack is an obstacle to Jen Kramer's routine? Of course I know that there's a ton of other exciting routines with the Mnemonica stack. Anyone here who can help me with this question?
tom_stamm
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It depends on how you want to use the memdeck. Do you want to shuffle in and out of New Deck Order? Do you want built in effects? What kind of built in effects? If you just want too use the memdeck as a universal key card, any memdeck will do.

Check out Doug Dyment’s Deceptionary website. Harry Lorayne has some excellent books on memorization.

Mnemonica , Redford and Aronson are probably the three most popular stacks (personally I am an aronson guy)

Reseach the “Shuffled not Stirred” forum there is a WEALTH of material here.

Best Regards
Just Some Guy.

"For Seven Tons of the King's Tea,
Six Fine Ladies to Fight a Great Jackass -- me."
Joeni
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Hey Tom,

my great goal is to be able one day to do something like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw9ygIhOWvI

My question isn't at the moment how it's done but only if this is possible with the Mnemonica stack by Tamariz.

Best regards
PaulPosition
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While I'm missing a subtlety in regards with how she gets back into stack order after the shuffle (A series of cuts would be more in line with my barely developed talents.. Maybe a half d*** s*****?), I am quite sure that this routine can be accomplished with any stack be it Tamariz's, Aronson's, Redford's, Joyal's or any order you would came up with on your own.
ddyment
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As Tom mentioned, you'll find a good overview of memorized decks in my essay on full-deck stacks.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
tom_stamm
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Hello joeni,

I have viewed the video twice. On the video she admits the method. At one point in the video she ribbon spreads the deck. I paused at this point and using a stack search utility can say it is not in a database of 400+ stacks. So it could be a private stack or simply one not in the database. (In a 52 card deck, there is the possibility of 51! stacks (51*50*49*....*1) = 1.55 * 10^66

The sequence did not appear to be mnemonica.
Just Some Guy.

"For Seven Tons of the King's Tea,
Six Fine Ladies to Fight a Great Jackass -- me."
Joeni
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Hey Doug, I've seen your essay recently, and found it really helpful!

@Tom thanks for having a look at the database!
Nicolino
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, tom_stamm wrote:
Hello joeni,

I have viewed the video twice. On the video she admits the method. At one point in the video she ribbon spreads the deck. I paused at this point and using a stack search utility can say it is not in a database of 400+ stacks. So it could be a private stack or simply one not in the database. (In a 52 card deck, there is the possibility of 51! stacks (51*50*49*....*1) = 1.55 * 10^66

The sequence did not appear to be mnemonica.

Well, in fact it's completely irrelevant what stack she uses as any stack would do the trick. However, I have to disagree with your investigation results as she actually uses the Mnemonica stack!

This is 100% and can be proved at two positions of the video. To do so, however, you must fully grasp what actually is going on there... Smile
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tom_stamm
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Hi Nicolino,

I will take your word for it. Like I said I only looked at her ribbon spread and it didn’t appear to be mnemonica.

Best regards
Just Some Guy.

"For Seven Tons of the King's Tea,
Six Fine Ladies to Fight a Great Jackass -- me."
Nicolino
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Because it was what I want to call a mixed-within-stack. Sounds paradox but it's like that. Smile
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Joeni
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Hi Nicolino, could you explain a bit further what you mean with a "mixed-within-stack"?
Nicolino
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Send me a PM, Joeni. Gern auk in deutch. Smile
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Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, Joeni wrote:
Hi Nicolino, could you explain a bit further what you mean with a "mixed-within-stack"?

In your initial post you asked if the trick could be done with the Tamariz deck.
You have heard from different sides that this is indeed possible. I even let you know this with a PM.
You must still learn an MD. The question you are asking now is of no importance for learning an MD.
I will certainly not say that you are "fishing" for more, but let's just keep it on the fact that you have received more than enough information.
I wish you good luck with learning a MD. You will not regret it.
Cain
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I'm not familiar with the Tamariz stack, but I think I know what Nicolino is getting at (are we talking about a separation?). She fooled me when I saw this, and I wouldn't be surprised if she fooled Penn & Teller because it's NOT entirely mental. The mem-deck is only part of it; it doesn't explain everything because the assistant genuinely shuffled his half. As I understand it, there was some sleight-of-hand. It used a move that Penn has called out before on the show in gambling terms. Her clumsy shuffling led them down the garden path.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Claudio
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Good call Nicolino. It’s indeed Mnemonica.

First, I enjoyed Jen Kramer’s performance and I have no doubt that the audience was thoroughly entertained and fooled by it.

As Cain, I got fooled when I watched the video as indeed the use of a memdeck is necessary but not sufficient to explain the effect:

1. The whole deck is displayed face up
2. Jonathan shuffles his half

I realised that the editing was partly responsible for fooling me. I don’t know if P&T got fooled, as they saw the unedited version but in any case, as noted by Cain, they certainly did not call Jen on it.
Waterloophai
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If we, as most claim here (and I believe them) , appreciate and love the concept of the MD, then let us stop trying to guess or analyze every trick in open forums. Only out of respect for the performer (Jen Kramer in this case). I do not think I (or you) would like it if colleagues in an open forum would explain how my (your) trick works.
Those who are a little educated in MD work know perfectly how the trick works, which stack is used, etc.
The others will find out if their time is right.
This thread may not be a good example of what I want to say. Nobody "revealed" anything. But still, if one puts all the puzzle pieces together Smile.
Respectful handling with the concept "MD" is dealing respectfully with its applications.
Going to Secret Sessions in some cases could be a (partially) solution for such cases and there are always also the Personal Messages.
This is not a criticism of anyone. Just a recommendation.
Nicolino
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I agree, waterloophai has a point here. In this thread we have put together more than enough information for a seasoned MD user to get an idea of what was going on and what possibly could be added to enhance the 'foolingness factor'. Smile
Please don't send any more PMs please.
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paperinick
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There is something incredibly similar in the last book by Woody Aragon. Clearly editing got rid of the peculiar moment when something happens... but... clever!
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death my right to say "scr*w you" if you persist. [Voltaire Smile]
Nicolino
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You probably refer to p. 242 of his latest book, right? Smile

I agree that it's more or less the same - the only exception being that Jen has built in yet another red herring for one of the cameras. Smile
The Mati Envelope
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WayneBurrows
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Nice routine. I think it is a pity that the video cuts out her move. What we end up with if there are too many cuts is trick photography not magic.
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