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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5131 Posts 
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What: A world where the available resources are distributed to allow everyone on the planet to lead a dignified life. A world where those who are most affected by decisions make the decisions.
How: Start from where we are: a place of no democracy, and no intelligent distribution of resources. Name the worldwide political/economic system in place now--capitalism. Understand how capitalism corrupts any semblance of political democracy. Understand how capitalism must end up with a few huge winners and lots and lots of losers. The only way capitalism can change is through workers uniting internationally to fight for their rights. Fail. Fail better. Win. Hope that's not TL;DR But I'm going to bow out of this thread as I don't want to divert it. I'm not an SF guy, and I think the OP and the other respondants have other fish to fry.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20877 Posts
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You also have to ignore the fact that it has never worked before.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote: This is not a Scifi thread. I'm just using 2 series that had established societies as a point of reference. They are just templates. I could have used the world of Blade Runner; but a future where corporations rule was just too scary. I'm digesting the rest of your post before I respond.
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: Doesn't matter. It is a thought experiment. Both series have one thing in common. One World Government. I think that is critical for any chance of those futures. Human nature being what it is, I still believe there will always be a criminal element regardless of how much technology supplements/provides the populace. Plus, you are always going to have people skate the system.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 20877 Posts
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Ultimately someone has to be in charge. Human nature being what it is therefore you must pick a system. May as well pick one that is functioning.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote: So Blade Runner it is... 
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Blade Runner, R.U.R. and Star Wars work until the moment after the "droids" or "replicants" parse the phrases "self evident" and "created equal". Slavery again but this time dressed in metal spoken of in words about information and material technology.
What holds a thing together? What limits the growth of a thing? *Cosplay with purple Star Trek tunics and long leather jackets is not the same as a functioning economy. What notions propel intentional activity deemed useful? What drives toward "good" and what propels intention away from "bad"?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote: I'm struggling with the ever tipping scales but I'll sally forth and accept the social engineering gnomes made it happen. The workers rose up and seized control. Everyone on the planet is allowed to lead a dignified life. Reallocation of resources accomplished. How are dissidents managed? What is the criteria for deciding those who are most affected? How is abuse prevented? Are we to be controlled by the boot on the neck as in '1984' or will it be more of a 'Brave New World' with better living through chemistry?
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Mike Gainor wrote: I think you nailed it with "managed/controlled". There's a gap between Adam Smith's invisible hand (Theory of Moral Sentiments) and traditional entitlements. Even with an ideological proposition about responsibility and duty...verified by some new act of social/natural selection which is sanctioned as good rather than abuse.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5131 Posts
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As if there were never a code of Law before?
This time the people most affected make it, rather than the powerful few.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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That's the crutch...
I still believe we are cavemen with cell phones and maybe in another 100,000 years we may actually be able to be less self-destructive. But I think I'm being optimistic with that timeline.
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote: Sure. What is the determining value of who is most affected? Wont that classification change with each modification?
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Maybe the world of "Avatar" as a goal? They have something like USB compatibility and a tree of knowledge. That looks less grim-dark than Blade Runner (off world and replicants) or deterministic than Brave New World.
@Landmark, there's a notion of "iteration" where rules are applied to results - it's been with us since compound interest, jubilees, Markov Chains, and Conway's "game of life" back in the 1970s. It's science. Projecting outcomes is fiction. What do you project?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Quote: How would someone know if they are affected? What dialog process do you suggest when it comes to building dams and flooding valleys?On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Quote: The term "we" is where I worry. The natural selection fairy might not bring what you're expecting. That's what motivates the story references.
On Nov 24, 2018, Mike Gainor wrote: No spoilers - just a quote from a story where people meet such a thing: Quote: "I'm more human than you've been for sixty-eight million years."
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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We just need everybody to exceed their Dunbar Number as it relates to empathy.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27226 Posts
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Interesting extension of "theory of mind" to active empathic social process.
 Taking self image as the "mean", what would you like to call the variation of "citizens" or "people" as regards normal transactions* in a society?
*A couple of more such standard deviations out - we don't say "hello" to our chairs, or "please" to our computers when we press the enter key.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote: Our little tribal circles, bound by social contracts and selfish mutual need. Everyone working in their own greedy self-interests and huddling together with their tribe, at war with all those outside who they regard as barely human. What breaks a human mind out of that iron cage of mistrust, is a sacrifice. The martyr who gives up everything, who abandons all personal gain, who lays down his life for the good of those outside his group. He becomes a symbol all can rally around. So instead of trying to make a selfish, violent primate somehow empathize with the whole world, which is impossible, you only need to get him to remember and love the martyr. As one is forgotten, another must replace it.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5131 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote: When you apply an actual will for democracy to technology, there can be imaginative and useful results. The mechanisms for democratic decision making have been investigated by many. Google parapolity and paragon.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Beyond bored... 287 Posts
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Quote: Congratulations, now you know the single reason why the world is the way it is. You see the problem right away-everything we do requires cooperation in groups larger than a hundred and fifty. Governments. Corporations. Society as a whole. And we are physically incapable of handling it.
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Posted: Nov 24, 2018 07:23 am 
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