The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Star Trek Vs. Babylon 5 Economic Futures (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
*parpolity
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:

When you apply an actual will for democracy to technology, there can be imaginative and useful results. The mechanisms for democratic decision making have been investigated by many. Google parapolity and paragon.


*parpolity and parecon !!! Sorry for the typos there.
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Beyond bored...
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
Sorry Landmark, but those typo's completely discredit you! Smile


Sad about Ricky Jay... Smile
*Yawn*
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Mike Gainor wrote:
Sorry Landmark, but those typo's completely discredit you! Smile


Sad about Ricky Jay... Smile


Absolutely. Anyway, I'd rather be hearing about Ricky Jay today. If you saw Deceptive Practices you might, like me, still be wondering where the ice came from.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20984 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
As if there were never a code of Law before?

This time the people most affected make it, rather than the powerful few.

Problem with your Utopia is that once those people make the laws, they become the powerful few. OOPS.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20984 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
...this time the people most affected make it, rather than the powerful few.
How would someone know if they are affected? What dialog process do you suggest when it comes to building dams and flooding valleys?


When you apply an actual will for democracy to technology, there can be imaginative and useful results. The mechanisms for democratic decision making have been investigated by many. Google parapolity and paragon.


Pure democracy is exactly what our Founding Fathers avoided intentionally. It leads to tyranny sure as any other idea.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
As if there were never a code of Law before?

This time the people most affected make it, rather than the powerful few.

Problem with your Utopia is that once those people make the laws, they become the powerful few. OOPS.


The many do not become the few. It's not complicated.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
Pure democracy is exactly what our Founding Fathers avoided intentionally. It leads to tyranny sure as any other idea.


Yes they avoided democracy. That's a large part of the problem. Stop avoiding democracy.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20984 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2018, landmark wrote:
As if there were never a code of Law before?

This time the people most affected make it, rather than the powerful few.

Problem with your Utopia is that once those people make the laws, they become the powerful few. OOPS.


The many do not become the few. It's not complicated.

Why has this system NEVER worked in the history of the world?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5138 Posts

Profile of landmark
For a reason different from why capitalism has NEVER worked in the history of the world.

It's because it's never been tried, and any movements towards such a system have been systematically crushed by capitalist and authoritarian forces.

But see, we've done this thread before. I'm going to shut up and let the SF people have their say.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20984 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
OH it has been tried. Utopia simply does not work. Never will.

Capitalism has not failed sorry. Is it perfect? No. But show me a system that is in practice that you can prove will work that IS perfect.

Propaganda aside it simply does not ever work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Beyond bored...
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
To be fair... saying it does not work isn't accurate. I think the better term would be that it isn't scalable.

Socialism works if everyone agrees and participates earnestly. The family unit is in essence a socialism commune*.

My position is that systems of this sort can't handle dereliction without becoming a veiled police state.

It's not the system that is the problem. It is the mindset of the people. So what is the best way to herd cats?
*Yawn*
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27236 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On Nov 25, 2018, landmark wrote:
...
It's because it's never been tried, and any movements towards such a system have been systematically crushed by capitalist and authoritarian forces.


Academic publishing?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Beyond bored...
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
The Star Trek world is the opposite of the field of dreams; being... If you build it, you may not enter...

My mind keeps wandering back to the horrible-horrible-horrible Noah movie. We are like those rock creatures building an arc that we are not allowed to board.

It isn't that we are corrupt, per se, but rather there are a few who are corrupt, a few who feel self-justified, and a whole lot saying 'if they are allowed to do it why can't I?'.

Yeah... I think it has to be Babylon 5. It allows for our nature to continue.
*Yawn*
Animated Puppets
View Profile
Loyal user
Beyond bored...
287 Posts

Profile of Animated Puppets
Quote:
On Nov 19, 2018, landmark wrote:
Peter Frase posits four possible scenarios for the future:

https://jackshalom.net/2017/06/23/peter-......art-one/


I just finished his book. He dabbled a little with the Star Trek {communist) universe, but nothing on Babylon 5; which is to be expected since capitalism is gone in this book.

As to the book he borrowed a lot of other peoples work and speculated upon it. He also implies when he thinks he is inferring. E.G. The mindset of prior service police officers...

Everyone believes their system is the best but instead of explaining why it will work choose to point out all the problems with the opposition.

Exploitation is basically abuse, but abuse is in abundance on both sides. If everything is free how do you prevent people from abusing the system?

In the Star Trek world they must have a lot of transporter 'accidents'...
*Yawn*
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Star Trek Vs. Babylon 5 Economic Futures (2 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL