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TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On Dec 3, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
I am not asking for someone to promote a book . I am posting this to ask for what the funniest thing you do for kids shows is.... ok?


That's perfectly OK. So you start!!!

Tell us all your funniest stuff right now and in great detail so we can take notes!!!!

I want your funniest stuff and I want it right now!!!

Quote:
On Dec 3, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
Also so we can all share.

All Share? Why have you not shared?????
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Dick Oslund
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Countrymaven, IMO, has a lot to learn about communicating! He needs to take some lessons in how to write a sentence! His thoughts "wander" a bit.

Plus (I agree, Ambitious, it's all one way with him. He doesn't offer anything of his. He just wants yours and mine. It took me 50 years to develop my program, one bit at a time. Why should I just GIVE him, what I worked so hard to develop?
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imgic
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Quote:
On Dec 14, 2018, TheAmbitiousCard wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
I am not asking for someone to promote a book . I am posting this to ask for what the funniest thing you do for kids shows is.... ok?


That's perfectly OK. So you start!!!

Tell us all your funniest stuff right now and in great detail so we can take notes!!!!

I want your funniest stuff and I want it right now!!!

Quote:
On Dec 3, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
Also so we can all share.

All Share? Why have you not shared?????


Perhaps he hasn’t shared because he doesn’t have good material...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Dick Oslund
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Right! "Nemo dat quod non habet!" (No one gives what he does not have!)
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countrymaven
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If you can read, I got the process, which was very helpful from several magicians. I am a pro by the way.
I am not asking to divulge your private 50 year old routines, ... those would not be relevant. Nor your best super secret fraidy rabbit patter. Also, I can find plenty of material better than yours on videos. I wanted the process and several kind magicians divulged that to me.

the MC lately seems to have a few helpful people who can solve a problem ... and a bunch of other people who only want to write negative drivel.
don't waste your time if you are in the second category . Nobody has time to waste on that anyways.
thanks for your excellent comments for those of you who are magicians helping magicians. to the others,,.... I feel sorry for you.
Dick Oslund
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On Dec 12, 2018, imgic wrote:
Yeah...adding political affiliation will help the discussion....


We don't discuss politics in the Café.
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Dick Oslund
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On Dec 14, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
Mr. woolery, thanks for a great point. as a kid you are messing up all the time. they naturally like to see someone ELSE mess up. This is really valuable. Not always made this clear even in top lectures on kids' magic!!!


I think that you make a hasty generalization when you say that kids mess up all the time. I mentored a "kid" named Doug Henning.

I spent 39 summers mentoring young lads when I managed summer camps for the Scouts. One of them just retired as a Major General in the Army. Another, recently retired as a Colonel in the Air Force. Many more are highly successful executives in the business world. They were not kids who messed up all the time.

You say that you're a "pro". THAT, doesn't mean that you're a >successful< "pro."!

I don't think that studying my dvd would help you.

At the Showmen's League (a real PROFESSIONAL group) we have a "wise saying" on the club room wall: "You cannot smarten up a chump!"
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On Dec 16, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
If you can read, I got the process, which was very helpful from several magicians. I am a pro by the way.
I am not asking to divulge your private 50 year old routines, ... those would not be relevant. Nor your best super secret fraidy rabbit patter. Also, I can find plenty of material better than yours on videos. I wanted the process and several kind magicians divulged that to me.

the MC lately seems to have a few helpful people who can solve a problem ... and a bunch of other people who only want to write negative drivel.
don't waste your time if you are in the second category . Nobody has time to waste on that anyways.
thanks for your excellent comments for those of you who are magicians helping magicians. to the others,,.... I feel sorry for you.


Reply points:

- Yes, I can read. Starting off a post like this (much like your reply to Mr Oslund’s suggestion to read his book) sets the negative tone you admonish.
- you started this discussion looking for what gets biggest reactions (gags included). Implying you wanted specific bits, routine, and patter. You didn’t ask for “the process” When you make such a request, it gives appearance you just want others material. Especially when you don’t offer anything in return. Perhaps if you’d started with “I get great reactions with X, what do others do?” It would help get this rolling (Google “the law of reciprocity”)
- others pointed out early that what folks use vary greatly on character and personality. What works for some won’t work for others.
- “...private 50 year old routines...” is an oxymoron. And when you write stuff like that, you are simultaneously putting others down and reinforcing your desire to get others current best material.
- You May perform magic for money, but when you all you do is ask others material, don’t contribute yoursel, and get snotty like a five year old not getting their way, you are not a professional.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
countrymaven
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Hi I apologize to all for my comments. Things seem to go south on the MC very quickly. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND. I THINK IF WE were in a magic club, we would be having a good time with each other. Something about posting online when you can't restate or requalify what you say seems to bring out misunderstandings. Again, I had stated that I did not know how to post it. Because I did not know that I was seeking the process, not the individual tricks. I make a living by magic. So that means I am professional. Not great. But I get people laughing and keeling over laughing. But I am getting into kids magic now.

As in many creative processes, I did not realize that I was not seeking a routine or patter, but rather a process. So when we have creative subjects like comedy, I ask that you please give people a little grace and breathing room. For comedy, I do not have much to offer for kids performances. I do mostly adult performances. But I do want to offer this. I have some color changing silks that are supposed to turn into something nice for one of the kids, but when the wand breaks they turn into some ghastly huge flowered underwear. Then instead of a rabbit appearing in a shopping bag, something else goes wrong and a weasel comes out. I do not claim to have found the holy grail. But I am willing to try things. What I have learned is that the prop and the PRESENTATIon, suited to the performer, are what work. I am still learning and appreciate those who helped. So that is the great thing I learned, is that COMEDY is a process THAT must be based on learning and observing and trial and error. Also knowing the basic principles that work with kids, like what David Kaye teaches, is important. So thanks Merry Christmas, and peace to all.
Mindpro
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Completely understood.

As someone who has trained, coached and mentored hundreds of performers for roughly 4 decades, I have often said performers don't always know what they truly need or want. More times than not, they think they want or need one thing when in reality it is discovered they want or need something else completely different. Often times that thing will lead them to what they thought they were originally seeking.

The same for the business of performing. I can't tell you how many guys and gals believe once they have a show that is performance-ready all they need to do is some marketing. This is almost always wrong, but, of course, they don't realize it.

Once they realize what they truly need, they see a larger more clearly understood and defined picture that will lead them to getting bookings or more bookings.

So may never learn or are taught the foundational elements that everything is based upon as performers (they just want to get to the tricks). As you've said, just look at some of the "advice" offered here on the Café, so much of it is, not true advice from an industry perspective based on real-world experience, but rather just opinions based on many that never did or understood the foundational process and elements themselves. This is why not all information offered here is the same or to be accepted as the same.

Also, in addition, to this you must remember quite often the context is created by the recipient or in this case here the reader. Yes, the OP may ask the question and can set the tone, but the content is almost always taken by the recipient AS IT APPLIES TO THEM. So, often I have seen over and over again, the reader takes content out of context as intended or offered by the original poster. Then, of course, it goes off into all kinds of directions.

So here, you may not have known what to ask or what you were actually seeking because you did know. Of course, if you didn't know you also wouldn't know how to ask. But through the Café process, like it or not, if you hang in there long enough, it can finally come around to discover what you truly are seeking and a true understanding by the help of others truly in the know. Some people are here for online friends and buddies, others come here for help, guidance and true assistance to learn, expand their knowledge and grow.

Yes, creating, writing, and truly performing is a process. One that should be embraced and enjoyed, not dreaded or feared.
Dick Oslund
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Once again, very well said! Mindpro! Ya shoulda wrote the TARBELL COURSE Volume on BUSINESS AND SHOW PRODUCTION!
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Mindpro
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I have, but rather than publishing it it is only available through my coaching and training events. Thanks for the kind words.
countrymaven
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MINDPRO SAID: "I have often said performers don't always know what they truly need or want. More times than not, they think they want or need one thing when in reality it is discovered they want or need something else completely different. Often times that thing will lead them to what they thought they were originally seeking. ....
But through the Café process, like it or not, if you hang in there long enough, it can finally come around to discover what you truly are seeking and a true understanding by the help of others truly in the know. Some people are here for online friends and buddies, others come here for help, guidance and true assistance to learn, expand their knowledge and grow. "

Dear Mindpro: People should pay you for these words. PROFOUND. You can eventually find what you need here, normally, if you just stick with the process and are diligent in learning and performing. So you have pointed out the great benefit of the MC.

You also helped me to understand why people try to pick apart a post and a person, when they would not do that if they were to meet in a magic club. They are applying the words of a post, to their own situation. If they are in a bad mood, they try to pick apart a part of a post which is unclear or which does not apply to their current situation or mood. hehe. but true.

So this just confirms that there are great outcomes from the MC, if you are patient and put up with all the negative feedback here.

Again, Mindpro, this is profound. That happened to me in this post. I discovered I needed to understand the process of creating humor for me, not individual examples alone. Because humor is personal. It must be adapted to who you are and the persona you assume while performing.
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Thank you countrymaven!

There was a day when many top working pros used to be here at the Magic Café and participated here and shared such top quality information quite freely. However the exact elements I pointed out and you have experienced in this thread, combined with the belief that we are all peers of the same level just because they can type on the same forum, has driven almost all of them away. It is truly a shame. That's why when you still get a few top working, longtime pros willing to share here, the time and effort really needs to be put into listening, learning, trying to understand, and most of all respecting them and the context they are coming from.

Dick is one I regularly see posting here, Pop Hayden is around in other forums, the great Harry Lorrayne is still a regular here, and several others who are willing to share their knowledge and experience but can also get frustrated with the lack of respect and the ignorance that is so common here these days.


Trust me, no one here has endured the wrath of others trying to discredit you, bring you down, challenge your credentials, and oppose the knowledge shared and offered here than myself by several, including people in this very thread! It literally has made this place a bitter place to many and driven many good pros off, regardless if they are big names or not.

Very few have accomplished what these working pros have over a lifetime in the entertainment business and the fact that many are so willing to share openly, such valuable information and insight, much of which you won't find in books or text, that has taken them their professional career and lifetimes to learn themselves and achieve, is absolutely amazing. Even more amazing is the lack of respect they get and the ignorance many have towards what they bring to TMC.

I have always said "be careful to who you listen to" here. There are many wannabes, pretend-know-it-alls, and guys that literally think that because they've been doing it 10, 20, 30 years or more, that they know or have the level of knowledge we are talking about. The problem is these people are the most delusional on all of the Café. Because they likely don't know, and have been sputtting and stuttering their entire careers and to this day are still struggling to succeed. They won't acknowledge this of course and will paint a fake picture and post with bravado trying to be an authority, but these are the most dangerous members of the Café. The can prevent learning and progress, hurt and do the most damage to others looking for actual credible, real-world information. These are the same people that get nasty when called out on it as they are in denial themselves and can't tolerate hearing it so they go on the defensive.

Sadly, this is the crap that one has to wade through in order to find what they are looking for.

A great example of this is in another forum where one of my coaching students wanted to excitedly share the amazing success he has had after working with me in my coaching program for a few months. He posted in an attempt to share both his excitement and what he learned as a way to share and help others. Other than one or two, almost all others in the forum did not accept his information in the context he offered. Instead they tore him, and of course me (his coach), apart with lack of understanding and actual interest in hearing and understanding what he was trying to share. Instead, they took it in entirely other direction (of course all negative) challenging everything he posted or any explanation he or I offered to create the proper perception and a better understanding for them. It is such a shame because I get many PMs a day from so many here stating how I've helped them over the years or on a specific topic or thread. The PM inboxes here are limited to 60 messages and many times mine is full and others can't even PM me - so there are many that are truly here to learn and grow, but the others make it quite difficult for them for sure.

I'm glad your "getting it" and sticking through TMC process to get to the information you are seeking. Don't let the personal agendas, biases, flaming, baiting and other BS prevent your own progress and growth. As a member here it, unfortunately, becomes up to you to learn and know who is the real deal, who are the wannabes and pretend know-it-alls, and also to separate who is posting base don opinions and who posts based on actual facts. All information offered is not equal. It is up to you to decide and recognize this for yourself. With this, you will get the most out of TMC. Once you learn to do this, you can ignore or bypass those you feel are not in your best interests. Others may want opinions and to see others thoughts, good for them as well.

I couldn't agree more with your comment "So this just confirms that there are great outcomes from the MC, if you are patient and put up with all the negative feedback here." This is the true value of TMC and those still here willing to share and help.
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It is not what you say, it is how you say it. It deals with the entertainer's personality. Anybody can say or read a line that a different entertainer got a big laugh off previously. But that certain entertainer saying the same line might not get any laughs. The entertainer probably was too nervous while saying it. The line probably does not fit his character. If an entertainer wants to be funny, he or she must make sure humor is their style. A lot of mentalist or hypnotist do not use humor in their shows because they do not fit that category. Matt Fore and Sylvester the Jester are two of those who are born with the instinct of being funny. It is natural to them.

It also depends on the audience you are performing for. I do a lot of adult shows also. From my experience I notice what type of audiences I can get to laugh more.

A good book I can recommend you is "Sleight Of Mouth" by Harry Allen. It has hundreds of humorous lines listed. Of course you will not need to use that many in one show. But there are several I learned that fits me well.
https://www.daytonamagic.com/sleight-of-......904.html

Another good one is "Make' em Laugh" by Aldo Colombini: https://www.daytonamagic.com/make-em-lau......788.html

More information about comedy is listed here: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......&start=0

I can tell you are a pro Countrymaven because you got stabbed in the back previously. It happens to the pros the most. It deals with jealously from other members. I know because it happens to me also. I will do what I can to watch your back. When I get time I will pm you some information you will not know about when it comes to comedy.
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It's so sad that once again that you are not comprehending this.

countrymaven just had a profound breakthrough after the help of pros here realizing it wasn't comedy lines/liners he needed, but rather the greater understanding of the process" of comedy and the subjectiveness of comedy. Most here have been sharing this understanding since page 1, and countrymaven has specifically said he truly understands this and it was in fact what he truly needed and will lead to exactly what he is seeking.

Then you come on here, once again posting links (of others works that you always seem to think is helpful for some reason and the solution to others) to...books of liners. After all the talk of hacks, stealing others liners, and materials, you post exactly that.

Comedy has much more to do with how you say something or your personality - comedy is a performance art that has to do with writing, timing, delivery, performance dynamics and so much more. This is also exactly why comedy lines of others rarely work, so why steer someone in such an unproductive direction? Comedy is an art that can be learned and one does not have to be naturally gifted. Its opinions like these that can lead someone away from what they really need and are truly seeking.
Dynamike
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On Dec 18, 2018, Dynamike wrote:


I know because it happens to me also.

See...told you.
Smile Smile Smile

A good person who does tricks and includes a lot of gags getting the kids to laugh tremendously is The Great Zucchini. I have both of his DVDs. I also know him in person. It is outstanding how he can keep youngsters' attention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZ9uLUgsY4
Dick Oslund
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Right Mindpro! When I was 16 in the '40s, I realized that I desperately needed more laughs in my "act" (note quotes). I had been trying to be "swayve & deboner". (I wasn't!)

Then Robert Orben printed "Encyclopedia of Patter". It was full of gags, and funny lines. I tried them! --But, as a teenager, I soon realized that those "canned"gags and lines, didn't FIT "ME"!

I glued myself to the radio on Tuesday nights. Fibber McGee & Molly, Bob Hope, Red Skelton et al. I began to understand TEMPO, TIME, AND T I M I N G! I realized that comedy situations were much better than comedy lines, for ME! I listened to "Can You Top This?" --and, learned how to "switch" a joke.

But, being still "manipulation oriented" (white glove split fans, Downs' Palm for the Misers Dream, etc.) I still blundered on. THEN, in the Navy, and, a bit older, I found an agent who gave me a tryout date. After, he said, "That was nice, BUT, if you can make 'em laugh, I'll get you lots of work!"

I sold the "white tie and tails", bought a tux, and, got serious about "making 'em laugh". "It all came together!" For the remaining 3 1/2 years of my Navy Enlistment, I never cashed a Navy paycheck. (THAT money was sent home to the bank!) I finally understood that people were not interested in watching a young guy perform a "look how clever I am" act. My Misers Dream became five minutes of hilarious nonsense! My "Multiplying Balls were dropped, and, became, a laugh filled 5 minutes of "frustration", with "A" ball. The white glove card routine, became 3 minutes of comedy "fancy" shuffles, ETC. The color changing silk became a "soft" sucker "explanation, The 20th Century Silks became a laugh filled routine with a small boy, which was strong enough to be next to closing, the Mutilated Parasol, got a show stop laugh, and, the breakaway fan, everngot a standing ovation , twice!

It hadn't "happened overnight", but, it happened! Over the years, associating with comedy magicians like George Johnstone, Mike Caldwell, Karrell Fox, Jay Marshall, Roy Kissell, Gene Anderson, et al, I polished my delivery, and presentation. I was never at liberty! I might have made more money in other areas of the business, but, I was happy, "making 'em laugh" in the knowledge boxes on the kerosene lamp circuit!
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TheAmbitiousCard
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Does this mean I won't be getting countrymaven's best stuff after all? (Gags included)?
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Dick Oslund
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I guess not, but youse kin get some of my best stuff, when youse reads my book, and watches my dvd. I'm not sayin' that ya should just 'copy' the material, but, learn from it.
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