On Dec 24, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Oh no not you.

Speaking of an unpopular position Harvard has taken on the gender wage gap myth.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-g......d-women/

On Dec 21, 2018, danaruns wrote:

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On Dec 21, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
To speak for women not in the association? THAT is your job? Interesting.

Yes, I find it interesting, too. And inspiring. And a good deal of work, and listening, and studying, and leading. It is sometimes dispiriting, occasionally elating, often satisfying, and always an important responsibility. I get to speak with hundreds of magicians, and women and girls who want to become magicians, I produce and participate in performances, I write, and the worst part of it is that I have to negotiate the politics, the prejudices, and the tremendous inertia of culture. Hopefully, it all helps.

Here's a link to the senior thesis by Angela Sanchez that actually led to the creation of the WMA, if you're interested. https://angelamsanchezdotcom.files.wordp......2013.pdf It's a wonderful jumping off point for the discussion of how women in magic have been treated for the last hundred or so years.

On Dec 26, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:

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On Dec 24, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
Oh no not you.

Speaking of an unpopular position Harvard has taken on the gender wage gap myth.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-g......d-women/

So you just want to ignore this part of it huh?

On Dec 26, 2018, danaruns wrote:
Fine, Danny. Say what you want to say on that subject.

On Dec 26, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:

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On Dec 26, 2018, danaruns wrote:
Fine, Danny. Say what you want to say on that subject.

Point is you don't speak for all women in and out of your club.

On Dec 26, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
So why don't women just choose to cook less?

Isn't unpaid work a choice like any other? Simply choose not to have a family you cook for.

But I guess it is off topic.

On Dec 26, 2018, danaruns wrote:

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On Dec 26, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:

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On Dec 26, 2018, danaruns wrote:
Fine, Danny. Say what you want to say on that subject.

Point is you don't speak for all women in and out of your club.

This isn't a "me too" kind of thing. This is a "let's fix the problem" kind of thing.

On Dec 21, 2018, Melies wrote:
Exactly, Dana: these guys are simply demonstrating the problem. We could go on all day responding to these ill-considered and thoughtless quips, equal parts malice and willful ignorance, but it would be a waste of time and virtual ink. There are two kinds of people, those who are interested in justice, and those who either don't give a *** about it, or who benefit from injustice themselves and want to keep it that way. I'll leave it to others to sort Danny and Fabuloso into which side they fall on. I will only say that what takes the cake for me is this one from not-so-Fabuloso, who writes: "In the situation you describe, yes you are at fault because you continue going to that meeting. ... You truly are being treated badly, go to those in charge of the meeting and complain. If not, and all it is is your feelings, move on to another meeting." Yeah, right. Sexism and racism are just "feelings" which "sensitive people" experience, rather than, say, institutional and discursive and affective, etc., structural features of society. And when a woman is being harassed or belittled or whatever, it's not on the MEN to change their behavior, but on the women to LEAVE. I would just note that this ugly attitude perfectly mirrors the attitude of many men (and some women) who have responded to allegations of rape, sexual harassment, etc., in the workplace via the #MeToo movement by blaming the victim.

On Dec 26, 2018, magicalaurie wrote:
To continue:

"Women and men’s opportunities and behaviours are determined as much by social institutions, including traditional gender roles and beliefs, as by the conditions of the communities and countries in which they live. Social institutions, such as formal and informal laws, social norms and practices, shape or restrict the decisions, choices and behaviours of groups, communities and individuals (Jütting et al., 2008). By defining which behaviours are deemed acceptable or unacceptable in a society, social institutions influence gender roles: in most societies, working for pay is considered a masculine task, while unpaid care work is seen as women’s domain."

"Reducing the level of discrimination in social institutions encourages gender roles to evolve allowing for more opportunities for the share of unpaid care work to be redistributed between the genders. Women are less associated with reproductive and domestic roles. Similarly, social norms open up new opportunities for men assuming domestic and care responsibilities."

On Dec 26, 2018, danaruns wrote:
Well, this thread certainly has taken a turn since the last time I visited.

So, this is about whether or not female spectators and assistants are in some manner sexually objectified in magic.

I'm guessing that means, for the spectator, the (male) magician making comments or somehow objectifying the volunteer's bodies; e.g., "Put this card where no one can see it," to a volunteer in a slinky or low-cut dress with no pockets. And for the assistant, it means having young, pretty assistants dress in bathing suits and heels, and parading them around the stage for the audience to enjoy. And I suppose implied in all that is a discussion of women's roles in magic, generally, in terms of sex and gender expectations and usage.