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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Having trouble with a false overhand shuffle (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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EERichards
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So I learned a false overhand shuffle. I don't know if it has a name though (if it does I'd be pleased for someone to tell it to me) It's a full deck false shuffle where the entire order of the deck is retained. It is different from the method I've seen Jason England (in his overhand shuffle foundations video) and different from the one Harry Lorayne teaches in his...magical classics video I think? I may have missed the point of those, but it seemed to me, those techniques were good for keeping single cards or packets of cards on the top or bottom but not a method to retain full deck order.

Basically, the problem I'm running into is that as I shuffle, the cards move further and further into the crotch of my right hand (away from my finger tips). Then the last packet I pull off often ends up being awkward because I'm putting it so far into my hand rather than having it right at my fingertips. I've tried moving the cards out towards the fingertips as I go, but I haven't found a smooth way to do it and there is usually a hesitation or pause which ruins the effect of a continuous shuffle.

Any thoughts? Or any particular sources I could look at for an good overhand shuffle that retains full deck order?
Sorry I'm a noob. I really want to get good at this.

Thanks!!
kShepher
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I don't want to be presumptuous but there is a very easy full deck false shuffle called the G. W Hunter false shuffle.

Can't help you with yours without a name of the shuffle.
EERichards
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On Dec 16, 2018, kShepher wrote:
I don't want to be presumptuous but there is a very easy full deck false shuffle called the G. W Hunter false shuffle.

Can't help you with yours without a name of the shuffle.


No, I understand. The guy didn't name it in the video. He just said "Here's a full deck false overhand shuffle". I don't believe it is an optical shuffle.

*edit* - someone in the comments called it a "Running Break Shuffle"


I'm not familiar with Hunter's shuffle. Is Hunter's shuffle a hindu shuffle? Or can it be done hindu and overhand?

Basically the one I'm doing shuffles off the first packet, retains that in a sort of break (making a "V" shape), and then shuffles all subsequent packets behind that to return back to the beginning.
kShepher
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Ok,you're a beginner. Good.. welcome to a world of unending satisfaction.

The best advice I recieved was to get a copy of Giobbi's Card College Vol 1. It's in there.
kShepher
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I apologize...it's in Vol 2. I highly suggest both volumes.
EERichards
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On Dec 16, 2018, kShepher wrote:
I apologize...it's in Vol 2. I highly suggest both volumes.


I have both Smile Will check it out.

Beginner? Yes. I guess I'd say so.

I used to study magic religiously when I was younger. I would sit down and read Hank Lee's magic catalog the way people read novels. If you told me the name of a trick I could tell you what it was supposed to look like and how much it cost. I had highlighted passages and annotations in the catalog and I'd made my own cross index for names of inventors and similar effects. I'd have notations in the catalog next to certain trick about what book you could find (in hank lee's book book) that would teach you more ways to perform that particular effect. So I'm fairly familiar with a lot of the magician names, tricks and methods (especially ones that were big in the late 80's and early 90's). I've taken about a 20 year hiatus but have recently developed a renewed interest.

Thanks!
kShepher
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Giobbi is very high on the GW. Don't take that lightly...besides being a a top author, he is a working professional. To this day.
Harry Lorayne
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I don't teach full-deck false shuffles in any of my books - because I don't work with completely stacked decks. The overhand injog shuffle is the shuffle of which I've stated often enough - covers a multitude of sins.
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kShepher
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Harry is completely right. Use an injog for a a partial stack...much more convincing.

I tend to doubt you are using a full deck stack.
EERichards
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On Dec 16, 2018, Harry Lorayne wrote:
I don't teach full-deck false shuffles in any of my books - because I don't work with completely stacked decks. The overhand injog shuffle is the shuffle of which I've stated often enough - covers a multitude of sins.


What about your "Expert Full-Deck Overhand" that I read about on magicpedia?

Harry Lorayne replied to my question. I can die happy now Smile I've studied both your magic work AND your memory work for years. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
EERichards
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I tend to doubt you are using a full deck stack.


No. I'm not (although I've been considering learning Tamariz's Mnemonica) but I just figured why learn a false overhand that only keeps parts of the deck in order if you can do one that keeps the complete deck in order. But maybe that's the wrong way to think about it.
Harry Lorayne
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Hey, you're right, EE. I don't know about magicpedia - but way back in 1994 I did publish that method for to false shuffling the entire deck. I even included it in ONLY MY APOCALYPSE. Sorry about that. Didn't think of it 'cause I never use a fully stacked deck, etc. I included it in the two areas for people who do. I guess...
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kShepher
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Listen to Harry.

I am nothing but a wart on his little toe.

Harry..I have that book and will look it up.
shaunluttin
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Hi EERichards,

Welcome to the Café.

At around 9:40 in this video (https://youtu.be/lq2Rj1uf05M) I do an overhand shuffle. It would likely suit your purpose. If you watch it repeatedly with a discerning eye, I think you will be able to reverse engineer the technique.

Best,
Shaun

Here is a 29-minute live performance of mine: https://youtu.be/lq2Rj1uf05M

I used to be quite sensitive to criticism; I am much less so now; so, please do criticize my technique, presentation, and posts. It helps me to grow, and I promise to take responsibility and not to be defensive.

magicfish
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2018, EERichards wrote:
So I learned a false overhand shuffle. I don't know if it has a name though (if it does I'd be pleased for someone to tell it to me) It's a full deck false shuffle where the entire order of the deck is retained. It is different from the method I've seen Jason England (in his overhand shuffle foundations video) and different from the one Harry Lorayne teaches in his...magical classics video I think? I may have missed the point of those, but it seemed to me, those techniques were good for keeping single cards or packets of cards on the top or bottom but not a method to retain full deck order.

Basically, the problem I'm running into is that as I shuffle, the cards move further and further into the crotch of my right hand (away from my finger tips). Then the last packet I pull off often ends up being awkward because I'm putting it so far into my hand rather than having it right at my fingertips. I've tried moving the cards out towards the fingertips as I go, but I haven't found a smooth way to do it and there is usually a hesitation or pause which ruins the effect of a continuous shuffle.

Any thoughts? Or any particular sources I could look at for an good overhand shuffle that retains full deck order?
Sorry I'm a noob. I really want to get good at this.

Thanks!!

Find a good book. Slow things down. Read through with cards in hand. Practice. Bring it up to speed.
The Burnaby Kid
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If you click in the signature below there's a free resource which teaches a few full-deck false shuffles. Don't give up on that specific technique -- a full deck false shuffle and a stack can lead to proper miracles. If you don't believe me on that, two things. First, Juan Tamariz can't shut up about the quality of magic you can get from the combination of those techniques. Second, why don't you believe me? I'm a smart guy. Sniff...

My personal favourite is Lennart Green's take on Erdnase's Fourth Method (the latter in covered in the pdf, the former you'll have to hunt down). Lennart Green has a real knack for taking existing methods and improving upon them, and his Joker Shuffle is one example of that. If you like the Erdnase Fourth, then when you see what Green did with it, you'll go loopier than a... um... loopy thing.
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shaunluttin
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On Dec 17, 2018, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
If you click in the signature below there's a free resource which teaches a few full-deck false shuffles.

I just downloaded it and had fun reading the introduction. How were/are the kittens?

Here is a 29-minute live performance of mine: https://youtu.be/lq2Rj1uf05M

I used to be quite sensitive to criticism; I am much less so now; so, please do criticize my technique, presentation, and posts. It helps me to grow, and I promise to take responsibility and not to be defensive.

JasonEngland
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That full-deck overhand false shuffle described in the original post by EERichards can be found in APOCALYPSE Vol. 7, No. 5 (May, 1984). It was credited to Pascal Monmoine, but has also been attributed to Alex Elmsley, who published it in his ALEX IS AT IT AGAIN (1997) lecture notes. Alex claimed he'd been doing the move since the 50s. For years this was all the information I had on it, but then Ricky Smith discovered it even earlier: There is a description in the Tom Munroe Parade in Linking Ring Vol. 29, No. 1; March 1949 Pg. 49. It is called, "An Easy False Shuffle". Was it around before that? Probably, but for now Munroe gets credit as the originator.

It was also a favorite false shuffle of the late, great Ricky Jay. He does it in a number of his television appearances.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
shaunluttin
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Jason. Wow. I was for a moment speechless. I love the sophistication and research that you bring to the art.

Here is a 29-minute live performance of mine: https://youtu.be/lq2Rj1uf05M

I used to be quite sensitive to criticism; I am much less so now; so, please do criticize my technique, presentation, and posts. It helps me to grow, and I promise to take responsibility and not to be defensive.

JasonEngland
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Thanks for the kind words Shaun.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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