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FlightRisk
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Chris, do you use the Maigret technique for the Maigret stack or use it to memorize another stack (or multiple stacks)? I looked at the poll in another thread and it looked like on here anyway, most folks use Mnemonica, then Aronson, then all the rest. At last check only 2 out of 100 or more used the Maigret stack. Not making any value judgments, I think whatever speaks to you is the one you should use, but I am always looking for people's opinions and their reasons.
Harry Lorayne
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Incredible. Mr. Woolery - stop making up things - I didn't, never would, call myself "The Yoda of Memory Training." Yes; I'm stupid, but not THAT stupid. The NY Times called me that.
And, you - and all the experts - want to learn a bit about the background of memory training? Go to memoryimprovement.org.
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Harry Lorayne
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One more point - and then I'll leave all to all "you experts." Not in one of my books did I teach to remember a stack. My books on memory training are for the general public, and the general public isn't interested in learning/memorizing a stack. Generally, most here have no idea what the heck they're talking about. Sorry, just MY OPINION - based on about 80 years of "doing it" "teaching it" "learning it" "devising it" "demonstrating it" "seminaring it". I think that most pay about as much attention a Mr. Woolery above - or perhaps say/post incorrect things purposely. Possible?
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Chris
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Quote:
On Jan 22, 2019, FlightRisk wrote:
Chris, do you use the Maigret technique for the Maigret stack or use it to memorize another stack (or multiple stacks)? I looked at the poll in another thread and it looked like on here anyway, most folks use Mnemonica, then Aronson, then all the rest. At last check only 2 out of 100 or more used the Maigret stack. Not making any value judgments, I think whatever speaks to you is the one you should use, but I am always looking for people's opinions and their reasons.

You need to keep the Maigret Stack and the Maigret System separate. You can apply the Maigret System to memorize other stacks, at least partially.

I personally use the Maigret System with a slightly modified Maigret Stack. The reason few use the Maigret System is that it is new. It was introduced in the English speaking market in 2016. That is not a lot of time to get the word out. But more importantly, if you have already memorized a stack, however you accomplished this, why would you learn it again with a new system, or why would you learn another stack? It makes no sense to switch for folks who have already memorized a stack. The System Maigret is a great choice for those who either have not yet started to memorize a stack, or for those who have at one time tried to memorize a stack, but failed for one or another reason. To those I suggest give it another try with the System Maigret. Given this situation I am not surprised that few use it. Perhaps in a decade or two the situation changes. But it may remain a 'hidden' gem for decades.
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Ravenspur
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Chris,

Where can I find more info about the Maigreat System?
Chris
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On Jan 23, 2019, Ravenspur wrote:
Chris,

Where can I find more info about the Maigreat System?

Here https://www.lybrary.com/the-stack-and-sy......175.html
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FlightRisk
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Right, I get that the Maigret "system" is a memory technique specific to memorizing card stacks and that the Magret Stack is one way to organize the deck. A benefit of this method is that the System and the Stack are designed to go together. While you can use most of the system to memorize other stacks, their are some benefits to using them together. I was just wondering how many people use the system AND the stack.
Waterloophai
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To the OP (Ravenspur) of this thread:
You write that you are a beginner and that you are still learning the different moves.
I would recommend you, for so much it is worth, to definitely wait a while to learn an MD.
After all, in order to be able to work decently with an MD, to master false shuffles and false cuts is as important as the MD itself. Both are inextricably linked.
So first learn the basic moves, shuffles and cuts and let the idea of an MD mature slowly until a later time.

Let us close this thread with something I have ever read somewhere:

Which system shall I use now?
Alas, here we can’t help you further. It is a choice you will have to make yourself. Hopefully you have discovered by now that WHICH system you learn is not the most important. THAT you learn one is. And here we can be affirmative. You will not regret it.
Mindpro
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I think you hit on something important that many newbies do not realize and that is sequential learning. To avoid overwhelm and having many thoughts all over the place with interest in learning so many tricks, methods, techniques, and areas of magic, it can all be much easier if done in a systematic order or structure allowing more direct focused learning and progress.
Ravenspur
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Right now, I'm a little impatient. I'm okay with the overhand shuffle and controlling top and bottom cards. I've started studying false cuts. I'm trying to follow Giobbi sequentially. I'd like to be able to be able to perform something. I plan to take a lesson in a few weeks to get some feedback on my cardhandling.

I have been studying John Bannon self-working tricks. I found out I'll need to take notes from the video to truly learn it. I'm hoping to perform one at the next SAM assembly meeting, though that will depend on how much I can practice it.

I appreciate the advice. I have a tendency not to study things sequentially.
Bobby Forbes
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You picked a great starting point in John Bannon. He is known for having great routines with little to no sleight of hand needed. Self working tricks will give you confidence and something to perform while your practicing more sleight intensive stuff. Also take a look at Ryan Schlutz offerings. He is fully capable of doing great sleight of hand but focuses on subtlety more than anything. Very cool stuff
IncantoMagic
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I would also like to point people in the direction of "The Memory Arts" by Sarah and David Trustman. After failing to memorize the Tamariz Stack 3 times, I learned it in one reading of the first section of this book, spread over three days. I was shocked at how well their system worked.
HeronsHorse
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I don't think anyone should feel they must use any system at all. It's a fact that repetition locks information in. I'm going to try an experiment and that is to simply learn 13 cards at a time. Just repeating those cards every morning and night. Do this 4 times and then altogether. How long will it take before I have my own memorized stack.? I'd say not too long, but I'm only guessing and have no experience. Of course there are stacks that have much built into them, and that is where mine wouldn't 'stack' up(!) However, there's nothing to stop me also building some advantages and easy done effects into mine either. As I become more experienced in this world of cards, the imagination is the only limiter. Well, that and maths. Smile
My point is that we should never underestimate our own creative ability!
Thank you all for some very useful information here though. I just wish that people would be tolerant of each other and not only different approaches but different attitudes and personalities. It isn't difficult to be nice.
Anyway you've ALL provided me with some information I will put in my notebook!
Thank you!
Paul
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TeddyBoy
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"I just wish that people would be tolerant of each other and not only different approaches but different attitudes and personalities. It isn't difficult to be nice."

HeronsHorse, Amen to that.
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
FlightRisk
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Ravenspur, I was going to stop posting but you said something that was in the post I wrote and deleted and think was important. You said "I am a little impatient". And to start the thread you said you were a "rank beginner". Let me humbly offer what I think was the most important lesson when I started out at age 16 several <cough> years ago Smile

We are all impatient to some extent, and maybe more so now society is after instant gratification. Why fight human nature? While discipline is certainly important, my advice is to balance that gratification with the work. What do I mean? People don't often stick with something if the reward is too long in coming. So first, learn a few slights. You can search "practice routine" in the card, coin or pertinent section to find some great lists. Then find an effect that uses one you are getting pretty good at. Use that as a foundation and find several effects you can put together into a routine. In your spare time, while watching TV, anywhere, use a practice routine to work on your basic sleights. Then slowly work on new sleights and new effects.

So here is my 2 cents in a short list:

RULES: Be patient, don't overwhelm yourself, practice, find a mentor

1. Study and learn one sleight and practice in blocks over days or weeks
2. Learn an effect that uses that sleight (or any effect you like)
3. Add another sleight and continue practicing the ones before.
4. Add an effect using one or more of your sleights
5. Start building a routine based on your effects

Rinse, Repeat

If you do it like that, you may find that can work to give yourself enough reward while you are going through the practice. There will be times where it feels like you hit a brick wall. Learning, especially with skills like this, is not a smooth upward curve, there are plateaus and leaps. Just when you are about to quit or throw things through a window, you just "get it". Like a little miracle. Then you get cocky and think you are on your way, and your learning curve goes flat for a while which can frustrate you. You have to learn from these experiences that you are just a few failures away from the next big jump. But as you look back, you will see how far you have come. Work on your practice routine every day. Imagine you are a star athlete. You have to practice every day, hit the weight room a few times a week, and then get on the field and win your games. Smile
Senor Fabuloso
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Not to beat a dead horse but working with the 8 kings stack and alternating the CHaSDed order up on picture cards and Tens I have found that no lay person has EVER realized the stack. This has been especially true if starting the deck at about the 5 of Spades. So many times we overlook the simple, for the more complicated not because it's any better but because we can't ever see it working for us and just enjoy complicating things.
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Ravenspur
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FlightRisk,

Thanks for the thoughtful posts. Sorry I missed it when you posted it. In addition to impatience with skills, I'm still figuring out what type of magic fits my personality. As a high school teacher and former small town public official, I have a good feel for and some skill at connecting to people. I just bought Presage (card mentalism with a gimmick, if you don't know it). With that, and a Bannon self-worker, I have two tricks to work on. I joined the local SAM Assembly and need something to perform! I'll see how things go when I present one or both of those tricks next month. I think I'm going to be more of a mentalist than anything else. That's part of my frustration: not knowing what I'll do. I love Derren Brown, but I'm only just learning mentalism methods.

Senor,

The kids who created Presage said it works well with a stack, so I may look into one of the 8 Kings or CHaSDed. I think I'm going to be learning some anagrams in the next couple of weeks.

Mark
mlippo
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Quote:
On Feb 20, 2019, Ravenspur wrote:
[...] and a Bannon self-worker, [...]

Senor,

The kids who created Presage said it works well with a stack,[...]
Mark


Mark,
just curious ... which Bannon's trick did you chose?

As for the use of the stack, I suppose they refer that you can have any card chosen and immediately know its identity. Otherwise in that case, you need to rely of a !@#$e, a gl****e or soeme other method.
Mark
HeronsHorse
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On Feb 20, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Not to beat a dead horse but working with the 8 kings stack and alternating the CHaSDed order up on picture cards and Tens I have found that no lay person has EVER realized the stack. This has been especially true if starting the deck at about the 5 of Spades. So many times we overlook the simple, for the more complicated not because it's any better but because we can't ever see it working for us and just enjoy complicating things.

I couldn't agree more. I only know the 8 kings, from my pocket erdnase book, yet the stuff I can do with it is astounding and not once has anyone noticed. I will sometimes do that spread where you sort of spray the cards down as you spread on the table, causing some to cover others thus disguising the red black order. But to be honest even that is unnecessary. People seem to check the cards order but not the suits I think.
Long live the 8 kings!
The hardest part for me was getting some convincing full deck false shuffles down.
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