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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Just a thank you (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Wravyn
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Visiting this thread and reading the answers to questions, I admit, I would read some of the answers as egocentric and insulting. Yet I have found that it was my perceptions of those answers. So, as Mark Twain once said...

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.

I just want to thank you for your time in answering the many questions and sometimes having to re-answer/ re-word them in ways that make sense to some of us.

Have a prosperous 2019.
Mindpro
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Well, since no one else is acknowledging this thread, let me say thank you for your thoughts. It is good to know that someone appreciates the efforts many make here. As a regular here I can honestly say that it takes a fair amount of time to share and respond to others posts and then the followup questions and continuation dialog that follows (along with the attitudes, egos, and agendas of some too).

Several of us are on the road a good majority of the year and we spend a great deal of our days (and nights) in airports, hotels, stopping at rest stops along the interstates, backstage in our dressing/green rooms, on planes, etc. and it allows us to follow a variety of threads and contribute regularly.

At times you wonder if anyone cares, if anyone appreciates all that it takes, not to mention the whole concept of opening yourself up and sharing your years of knowledge to others. The internet generation has produced a generation of takers, so again it's great to hear your thoughts of gratitude.

Hopefully, you'll contribute here more as it can be one of the most beneficial forums on the Café. A happy & successful 2019 to you too!
Wravyn
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Thank you Mindpro.
As a hobbiest with no business sense, I highly doubt I have much to contribute in this area. I will say though, that I am learning aspects of magic here that deal with the ‘reality’ side of being on stage, not just tricks. I sometimes find that questions are answered to which I did not know there was a question to begin with (if that makes any sense ). Thank you again.
Mindpro
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Good thoughts. I think one of the things many don't realize is how much your performance and business operations are so closely linked and connected. More than most (that do paid performances) often realize.

However, I think leaning the performance side of performing, is something also so valuable that more performers should take the time to understand and commit to. It is also where the differences between a magician vs. beginning a performer vs. being an entertainer are truly realized and some great breakthroughs will occur.
Mary Mowder
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I'd like to thank those who post answers and info. here as well.

Mary Mowder
Theodore Lawton
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Big thanks from me too. I haven't been posting here as much, but I've been reading. We moved to Washington last September and have been living in our grandbaby's nursery until our guesthouse could be made livable. We're finally in and I just got my day job hours changed to what will enable me to seek out performing opportunities.

So thanks again for the chats we had before we moved. I'll be checking in more regularly again and I greatly appreciate all the information people share.

I read a short thing yesterday, that we've probably all seen some incarnation of before, about time being our most precious resource. The time we give people is the most valuable thing we can give them and the answers given here definitely take time to write. It is very much appreciated. Thank you for spending your time on us.
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jan 6, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Thank you Mindpro.
As a hobbyist with no business sense, I highly doubt I have much to contribute in this area. I will say though, that I am learning aspects of magic here that deal with the ‘reality’ side of being on stage, not just tricks. I sometimes find that questions are answered to which I did not know there was a question to begin with (if that makes any sense ). Thank you again.


I was referenced to this thread by someone by PM and it caused me to revisit it. I think one of the things newbies or guys like yourself "as a hobbyist with no business sense" can contribute is just that - an openness that they know there's much they don't know or have yet to realize, yet are willing to be interested in learning. You, as someone who doesn't know, is often in the same position as a prospect or potential client contacting us for a booking or more information. They too feel they know nothing about any of this. Other beginning, non-professional performers, or up and comers also will feel the same as you and can befit greatly from your position of someone who doesn't know.

Your greatest contribution here is that you might not yet know, do not have bad experiences, or have poor, unproductive or incorrect habits developed. To me, this makes the best kind of learner. Others can also learn from this. It makes it less intimidating for others as well. Even if things may not directly pertain to you in a business sense, so much of the business side of what we do directly affects and has an impact on our actual performances.

With almost every person I've consulted or coached, they have found themselves wanting to make changes to their performances due to the better understanding of some aspect of their business or operations. It may be physical or it may be in approach, mindset or personality, but it often helps improve their performance by gaining this busiess insight, understanding and perspective.
Wravyn
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Thank you for revisiting Mindpro.
Within this whole area of Tricky Business, there is a plethora of information. I do find answers to questions that, as I mentioned, I did not know I had. I ponder and look at what was shared and sometimes, find myself with more questions but still unsure of the question, or at least how to ask them properly... so I dig some more Smile
I would say that one of the most important aspects is ‘Knowing oneself’’. Being a hobbyist, there is a discipline that needs to be learned... what am I good at and what do I actually enjoy doing; am I good at what I enjoy doing? Do I enjoy what I’m good at? Being a jack of all trades is not necessarily a bad thing, if one is proficient at it, yet learning to recognize that one isn’t proficient...
Before one can get to the actual business, as mentioned, one can not just have an act then sell it, one has to have something to offer for a target area... learning what that something is and being a let to deliver what they are needing must still fall into the ‘What I’m good at and also enjoy doing.’
Though I am usually quiet in this area, many teachings and kind knowledge shared, do not fall on deaf ears.
Mindpro
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I agree. I regularly get PMs each week from both guys and girls here stating how much they have learned and taken from here (Tricky Business-TB) even though they choose not to post or participate in the discussions. When monitoring the stats for this section many posts usually will get 80-120 views in the first 24 hours, yet often without any comments or posts, or perhaps only from some of the regulars. So yes, there are many people who follow TB a take much from here that we don't regularly hear from, although I appreciate the PMs.

Secondly, I think Wravyn sets a great example of something I believe is most crucial in the learning process today, whether here or anywhere outside of this community. That is being able to be completely honest with yourself and where you are currently at in your personal level. He regularly states he as a learning Amateur. Once this is done correctly it is so much easier to understand where you are and where you are trying to go. It makes it much easier for others to offer assistance. It is so refreshing as so many in the magic community want to believe they are at a level they have yet to achieve.

I was on a plane a few weeks back reading an article about millennials and how they don't want to be homeowners, how they don't want to set roots and establish themselves and their careers in one town or area, how they don't want to have long-term jobs (or really anything long-term, lol), but the thing that I read that was most interesting is how they think just because they can think or say something that that is their reality. I can do a few magic tricks so I am a magician. I have recorded some audio or I have interviewed a friend so I am now a podcaster. I like to travel and document my travels so, therefore, I am a travel expert. I like to fish so I will record some videos of me fishing and post them to youtube so now I am a professional or master fisherman. Yet they actual interviewed some millennials and one said that he learned a phrase that he lives by, if "I think it I can do it." I too once had a counselor who used the same statement however we took it much differently than these millennials. We took it as encouragement to be and pursue whatever you wanted to do or be. Create the goal, commit to it, work hard towards making it happen through the proper channels to get to the desired result and achievement. However, the experts in the article were saying that the millennials they studied believed it differently. They took it as I just do it however I think it is done without the (education or proper knowledge) commitment, proper process, or any real specific goal other than doing it the way they think something is in their mind which often is the fastest, most abbreviated means to what they perceive as the end-goal. The result is completely different from our (the other generation's) results and definition. The understanding of different levels and commitment aspects are completely missing.

I think we see that here a great deal. This is why it is nice to see it when somebody truly understands where they are or their true current level in the hierarchy of something. This allows for clearer goal achievement and growth to greater levels, and once identified allows for a plan of execution for it to occur.

Great to hear our efforts aren't fallig on deaf ears.
Wravyn
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Here is a question that kinda bounced around in my mind...
If a person starts doing paid shows more often, how much money, percentage wise, should be set aside towards taxes?
If that person were to become a full time pro, here in the US, does one need to also set aside monies for the Social Security taxes that usually get taken from a paycheck in a mundane world job?
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On May 30, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Here is a question that kinda bounced around in my mind...
If a person starts doing paid shows more often, how much money, percentage wise, should be set aside towards taxes?
If that person were to become a full time pro, here in the US, does one need to also set aside monies for the Social Security taxes that usually get taken from a paycheck in a mundane world job?


Your normal federal & state taxes will still be about the same percent you pay now on your job.

But a self employed person must pay in Social Security and Medicare taxes.
It’s about double what you would pay on a job because there the employer pays a part of it.
I believe this tax is now 15.3 percent of your net earnings for the self employed.

Tom
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 30, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Here is a question that kinda bounced around in my mind...
If a person starts doing paid shows more often, how much money, percentage wise, should be set aside towards taxes?
If that person were to become a full time pro, here in the US, does one need to also set aside monies for the Social Security taxes that usually get taken from a paycheck in a mundane world job?


Spend a few bucks on an accountant. Do NOT ask other magicians. The state you live in will have huge impact on the answer.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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As for as the taxes, Federal tax, Social Security and Medicare taxes are the same in every state. It’s your state taxes, and needed business permits that will vary from city to city and state to state.

But yes a local accountant can help if you’ve never been self employed or don’t understand that side of business. But don’t put all your trust in just any accountant without learning the basic tax stuff yourself.

Don’t be afraid to talk to other self employed people to get an idea of what questions to ask the tax expert.

A small business has many tax deductions that the average working person wouldn’t know about. And in the beginning it’s mainly these business tax deductions that you need to learn and talk to the professional about.

Every penny you save on taxes is profit. Unlike going to the tax person at the end of the year and having her/him figure your taxes from your tax stubs, business taxes are an ongoing thing. Record keeping is important.

Tom
Wravyn
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Quote:
On May 30, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On May 30, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Here is a question that kinda bounced around in my mind...
If a person starts doing paid shows more often, how much money, percentage wise, should be set aside towards taxes?
If that person were to become a full time pro, here in the US, does one need to also set aside monies for the Social Security taxes that usually get taken from a paycheck in a mundane world job?


Spend a few bucks on an accountant. Do NOT ask other magicians. The state you live in will have huge impact on the answer.


Danny, yes, an accountant is needed. The main reason I asked is I don't remember seeing a question like this asked here.
There are many wise and helpful answers here which pertain to the business of entertainment and this aspect
is something that may get not thought about upfront.
I would like to say common sense should come into play about taxes, yet common sense isn't all that common anymore.
Dannydoyle
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Taxes have almost nothing to do with common sense any more. Most self employed people care about paying as little as possible, not considering what exactly this means.

I cringe when I see most tax returns from small business. As an example we were going to buy this marina. It was on fresh water lakes and does OK renting boats and such and winter storage. His goal was to get as close to zero at the end of the year for tax purposes. He skimmed all the cash out, paid people under the table and did all manner of nonsense.

Now he is in a position to try to sell the business and retire. He wants to claim it is worth a whole lot more than it is on paper. Even if someone believed him no bank will loan anyone money based on lies. His business is worthless.

If you want to get cars and houses you better show income. A tax professional will help with all this. Unlike some seem to think it is about s lot of stuff. It is worth the money. Because the idea of money saved in taxes is profit is ridiculously silly. It is a cost benefit analysis.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Last year Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes. So you can show a good profit and a loss at the same time.
Every penny not paid in taxes can be invested back into the business which will cause the business to grow. Now this doesn’t mean that Amazon employees including
the owner didn’t pay their fair share of taxes on their salary.

The word ‘salary’ should be important to a new business owner. Don’t assume that every penny you take in is your salary and can go straight to your pocket.
Draw a fixed salary, pay taxes on that salary just like any working person, and then find ways, through your accountant, to protect the rest from the government.
All profits are taxable if not protected.

I agree with Danny that it is important to be able to show on paper that you can repay loans, make purchases, etc. Hiding money in an illegal way and such will do
nothing but get you in trouble.

Tom
Dick Oslund
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YUP!

The wisest thing I ever did, was to employ an accountant!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 31, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Last year Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes.

Tom


I have to admit I stopped reading after this.

Nobody here is Amazon. Aside from the contradiction in the sentence quoted above nobody is Amazon. The deals they make and the offset they receive for being so big means that the comparisonis silly. It is the difference in lightening and the lightening bug.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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YUP!
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On May 31, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On May 31, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Last year Amazon paid $0 in U.S. federal income tax on more than $11 billion in profits before taxes.

Tom


I have to admit I stopped reading after this.

Nobody here is Amazon. Aside from the contradiction in the sentence quoted above nobody is Amazon. The deals they make and the offset they receive for being so big means that the comparisonis silly. It is the difference in lightening and the lightening bug.


Of course nobody here is as big as Amazon, the point is that you take advantage of all the tax breaks you can to reduce the tax you pay. Because regardless of what you think, every tax dollar you don’t pay Uncle Sam you get to keep.

Danny, I have done business taxes for 40 years, for myself and others, as well as teach some business classes, and I don’t need your smartxxx insults, so carry on without me.

Tom
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