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TeddyBoy
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Can you list the 3-5 false display counts that you use most frequently? I would like to find a way to narrow it down to a few since there are so many taught within the Card College series...and frankly, they make me nervous for some reason.

Thanks in advance for your input.
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
Merc Man
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Hamman Count - I prefer it, wherever possible, to the (less natural-looking?) Elmsley, Jordan, etc.

That said, over the years I've see the Hamman Count absolutely butchered by the majority of performers - including some 'names'.

Even a few instances when I've seen it used recently are, in a word, cringeworthy. Smile
Barry Allen

"The Rules of the Sleight-of-Hand Artist, are three and all others are vain; the first and second are 'practice', and the third one is 'practice again'.

Edward Victor 1936
lynnef
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If it's just a "count", the Hamman is more natural looking. However, the Elmsley count has its own uses for card turnovers eg; so it seems each has its place! I use em both, depending on the trick. Lynn
Rupert Pupkin
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Horses for courses. I find counting into a dealer’s grip much more natural than counting in an overhand grip. Make it consistent with YOUR card handling.

(I’m not, by the way, arguing for a “no bad moves, only bad performers” mindset. There are plenty of bad moves. But these aren’t.)
IncantoMagic
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Elmsley/Jordan Count, Hamman Count/Biddle Move, Buckle Count, Flustration Count
Steganos
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I use the most... Elmsley count with Fred Kaps's angular flip, Jordan count, Hamman count, Biddle move, Ascanio's spread...
Bob G
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TeddyBoy, From everything I've read (and I admit I'm far from being an expert), the Elmsley Count is the most-used count. Because of that, the EC is the first one I'm learning -- it opens up zillions (plus or minus a jillion) tricks. To my eye it looks perfectly natural. I'm trying different handlings; the one that I'd most like to master, because it looks the most natural, is Elmsley's original version, early in the first volume of Stephen Minch's book on Elmsley's magic. You can find essentially the same handling in Colombini's ebook, What's Up Deck. And Colombini has lots of inexpensive DVD's/downloads on packet tricks, so you can watch him do the count.


Let's wish each other luck!


Bob
Bob G
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Steganos, Do you have a reference for the EC with Kaps's angular flip?


Thanks,


Bob
mlippo
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For me it would be

Elmsley/Jordan Count
Hamman Count
Flushtration Count
Ascanio Spread
Olram Count

although I do not consider these as counts, but rather false displays ..

Mark
davidpaul$
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There is a great little book by Jerry Mentzer, " Counts Cuts Moves and Subtlety "
My list of most popular for me;
Elmsley..Veeser...Flushtration....Olram
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Bob G
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P. S. to TeddyBoy: What really helped me start to get the EC was Ian Kendall's Basic Training (from Lybrary.com). He does a masterful job job breaking sleights into small pieces and helping your learn each piece before putting it all together. EC is the first chapter. The only thing I don't like about the chapter is that he teaches the method (which many people use) where you start with the cards in the left hand, then move them to the right hand while counting one card back into the left hand. Not as natural as Elmsley's original, but if you follow Kendall's instructions closely I doubt anyone will notice.



I like your question, by the way. I'm finding it really interesting to see which counts people are listing.
Steganos
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Steganos, Do you have a reference for the EC with Kaps's angular flip?


Thanks,


Bob


Hi Bob,
I think there is a reference of Kap´s Angular Flip in "Cartomagia Fundamental" by Vicente Canuto, a great book. It's published in spanish I don't know if is in english too.
Rupert Pupkin
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The move can be found in volume two (I think — the blue one) of the Ascanio books.

This may be a little tougher to obtain, but you can also find a description of the move on Derren Brown's Devil's Picturebook videos, which he released several years ago.
Bob G
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Thanks, Steganos and Rupert. I looked up the three references you suggested, and they're all beyond my budget. (I used to be quite good at Spanish, so, at a cheaper price I might have considered the Canuto.) In case anyone's interested, Vanishing Magic has rereleased the Devil's Picturebook.



See you,



Bob
TeddyBoy
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Thanks so much for all your thoughts and suggestions. Right now I have so many books to get to that I cannot really justify buying more stuff.

To Bob G-definitely good luck. Right now I am face-to-face with Prof. Giobbi's treatment of the Hamman count in Card College 2. I am expecting this will keep me busy for several practice sessions.
I think that I'll know that I have made progress when all of these false display counts stop looking like each other. Smile And forget about versions and variations at this point, and which looks more natural! By tonight if I'm not dropping cards...it's a major victory.

Thanks again to all.
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
Rupert Pupkin
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2019, Bob G wrote:
In case anyone's interested, Vanishing Magic has rereleased the Devil's Picturebook.


Great to hear! It's a fascinating document, and has some interesting material on it.
Bob G
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Merc and Lynn,


Just curious: Can you elaborate on why the HC seems more natural to you than the EC (if both are done well)? To my admittedly untutored eye, they both look good, with the HC maybe coming in a close second because it uses the biddle grip. I'm not questioning your taste -- just trying to continue my Magical Education. Smile



On a related issue, I know there's a way to do the HC at the fingertips. Can you suggest a good source for that that really goes into detail? (Daryl shows it in his Encyclopedia, but it goes by *really* fast, at least as viewed by us Bears of Little Brain.



Thanks,


Bob
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2019, mlippo wrote:
For me it would be

Elmsley/Jordan Count
Hamman Count
Flushtration Count
Ascanio Spread
Olram Count

although I do not consider these as counts, but rather false displays ..

Mark


It's a shame. I'm not saying you're wrong, but technically the Elmsley, Jordan, Hamman and Ascanio are all quite effective as counts. We just don't see them used that way as much. The Elmsley in particular is spiffy in that context. If you can nail a 2-as-4 display with Elmsley-like actions, you've got everything you need for an awesome close-up 4-card repeat, aside from the climax (although all too often the stage ones are missing climaxes as well).
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Merc Man
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Merc
Just curious: Can you elaborate on why the HC seems more natural to you than the EC (if both are done well)? To my admittedly untutored eye, they both look good, with the HC maybe coming in a close second because it uses the biddle grip. I'm not questioning your taste -- just trying to continue my Magical Education. Smile

Thanks,

Bob

Hi Bob,

The reason I prefer the Hamman Count is simply because I think it looks a more natural handling when counting cards. For example, if you gave a small packet of cards to a non-magician to deal from one hand to another, they'd more than likely count them in a manner similar to a Hamman Count than an Elmsley.

I do use an Elmsley Count (and have done since learning Elmsley's 4 Card Trick as a young teenager around 40 years ago). I also can do it pretty convincingly; even with (honestly) Bee cards.

However, I just prefer the more natural-looking handling of the Hamman Count - it's also the count I always use instead of the Jordan Count - which to me, always looks a bit hooky (compared to an Elmsley). With many effects, this can mean throwing the last two cards, as one, on top of the packet, etc.

Just to add that the best instruction I have ever read for the Hamman Count was taught by Ken Brooke; for Bruce Cervon's 'Dirty Deal'. If anyone needs further info on this, don't hesitate to PM me.

At the end of the day, one of the most important aspects of any false count isn't just the handling, it's the TIMING.

Cheers,

Baz
Barry Allen

"The Rules of the Sleight-of-Hand Artist, are three and all others are vain; the first and second are 'practice', and the third one is 'practice again'.

Edward Victor 1936
mlippo
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Quote:
On Feb 13, 2019, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 13, 2019, mlippo wrote:
For me it would be

Elmsley/Jordan Count
Hamman Count
Flushtration Count
Ascanio Spread
Olram Count

although I do not consider these as counts, but rather false displays ..

Mark


It's a shame. I'm not saying you're wrong, but technically the Elmsley, Jordan, Hamman and Ascanio are all quite effective as counts. We just don't see them used that way as much. The Elmsley in particular is spiffy in that context. If you can nail a 2-as-4 display with Elmsley-like actions, you've got everything you need for an awesome close-up 4-card repeat, aside from the climax (although all too often the stage ones are missing climaxes as well).


Andrew,
I was just pointing out what's been already said and that very seldom we say something like "Here I have one-two-three and four blue backed cards, ladies and gentlemen!" while doing an EC...
But then, even a so-called colour change is not really that ...

Anyway you're probably right and that final sentence of mine was pleonastic..

Mark
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