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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » How can Hamman count be effective? (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TeddyBoy
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A newbie hobbyist question. I've just learned the Hamman count, and believe I appreciate what it is supposed to achieve. The problem I have is that at the end of the count when we again re-count cards that were first displayed only seconds before, I don't understand how a spectator is not noticing this. Have those of you that use the Hamman count ever been caught with it? Can merely keeping eye contact with the audience really misdirect their attention to the extent that they do not notice the repetition of the cards?

I should point out that I have not yet performed for anyone (other than my wife) due to performance anxiety, therefore I have virtually zero audience experience. Unfortunately, with respect to overcoming the anxiety, the end of the Hamman count is definitely not helping.
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
ChrisPayne
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The Hamman count is commonly done with the cards face down which solves the problem! If done face up the commonest use is probably "Wild card" where you appear to show 8 cards the same with one stranger card in the middle - it all depends on the context of the trick.
mlippo
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I've used it numberless times in Oil & Queens, masterpiece by Roy Walton. Cards are face up in this case, but audience do not notice the discrepancy.

Mark
Rupert Pupkin
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Magicians are fond of the phrase, “Don’t worry, it will fly.” It's sometimes, though rarely, true.

You’re asking an important question, one which has an answer somewhere between “Just accept it” and “It depends on the trick.”
TeddyBoy
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2019, ChrisPayne wrote:
The Hamman count is commonly done with the cards face down which solves the problem! If done face up the commonest use is probably "Wild card" where you appear to show 8 cards the same with one stranger card in the middle - it all depends on the context of the trick.


You are correct, I should have been more clear that in my case, the packet is indeed, face-up. The specific trick is Mystic Nine by Brother John Hamman, and Prof Giobbi's modification of it in Card College Volume 3.
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
magicfish
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A well executed Hamman Count is very convincing.
NicholasD
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On Feb 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
A well executed Hamman Count is very convincing.


Agreed. There should be no pause when the switch is done.
Rupert Pupkin
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I hope to one day see a well-executed one. I think the move is great, but I have yet to witness the switch done undetectably.
magicfish
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Brother Hamman, John Carney, Max Maven are three that come to mind. There are many more.
Ferry Gerats
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Teddyboy you can start the count with the spectators at your left and end the count with spectators on your right.
The Burnaby Kid
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On Feb 27, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
I hope to one day see a well-executed one. I think the move is great, but I have yet to witness the switch done undetectably.


It's just SUCH a knacky move for what good it does you to get it that smooth throughout, for all the trouble it gives you. Honestly, I think Tommy Wonder had the right idea in Tamed Cards, which was to motivate a break in the action.
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HeronsHorse
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I saw Jerry Sadowitz doing Hamman count at his show and it was very much undetectable! I only knew it because I knew it, if you get me.
But yes Rupert, I agree. Every time I've seen one on YouTube it has been to this rhythm: 1,2,3,4,FIVE!,,6,7,8,9 Smile
I've spent a long time on mine and it never drops off my premium practice list to the second -top up- level. I doubt it ever will. It's just something I can only do if I do it often. Daily.
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TeddyBoy
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On Feb 27, 2019, Ferry Gerats wrote:
Teddyboy you can start the count with the spectators at your left and end the count with spectators on your right.


Very interesting perspective, thank you.
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
landmark
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I have not yet performed for anyone (other than my wife) due to performance anxiety...


For a lot of us, performing for the spouse doubles the anxiety...Smile
HeronsHorse
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TeddyBoy, I didn't comment to your question.
I use the Hamman count, face up, in Oil and Queens too. The thing is that the cards used are very nondescript anyway and uninteresting and also similar. I thought just like you when I first read the tutorial. However, when I performed it, it really didn't get spotted. I have now performed it to strangers probably 40 times and no one has said anything about the cards being the same. They haven't seemed to have spotted it either and could maybe have just been being polite? No! They are following the process and then enjoying the kicker at the end and their mind isn't even on such a thing as the actual card suits and numbers.
Like Rupert said, and I will say it - at least for Oil and Queens, and I'd wager any effect where you are to use very similar cards (7c,6d,8s,7s,6c...for example) - that it really does fly past them, under the radar.
The only thing that got me to realise this was performing it.
Go to Cafés*, play around with a deck and before too long someone will ask if you can do magic. Just turn to them and start your trick. Do this count a few times to strangers and the boost it gives is immeasurable.
Good luck!
Smile
*Or any local place that people hang around in.
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Those who think that magic consists of doing tricks are strangers to magic. Tricks are only the crude residue from which the lifeblood of magic has been drained."
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mlippo
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2019, NicholasD wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
A well executed Hamman Count is very convincing.


Agreed. There should be no pause when the switch is done.


This is not true. It may be done, if you have a reason or time it correctly.
See for example Tommy Wonder in his Tamed Card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvURE6ueeEk

Count start at 1:25

Mark
mlippo
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On Feb 27, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
I hope to one day see a well-executed one. I think the move is great, but I have yet to witness the switch done undetectably.


What about Vallarino in his Ultimate Wild Card?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3QynL4oLhg

Count starts at 0:21
.Mark
mlippo
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On Feb 27, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
I hope to one day see a well-executed one. I think the move is great, but I have yet to witness the switch done undetectably.


I PM'ed you
stickmondoo
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It’s nice to be able to perform a trick, say The Mystic 9, from a normal deck, but when it comes to doing Hamman Counts and Elmsleys they lend themselves to packet tricks and you can make them up out of anything. The Mystic 9 could be made up out of five Similar Jokers and five blank faced cards and the Hamman Count instantly becomes easier to ‘get by’ the layman. The way I perform the Mystic 9 from a Normal deck is to have no duplicate values among any of the cards. Say I would pick out the 8c 5s 9c 7s and 6c. And a similar set with hearts and diamonds. Because the suits are jumbled and there are no duplicate values you will never see 3 of a value as you do the count and even though you may see two 5s because of the suit jumble it’s fine.
Melephin
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This is one of my favourite moves. I use it in my oil and water routine, the cards facing up and I was never caught. In the contrary, I have used it as an out as well, where it saved the day (while people where burning my hands).

The timing is indeed the important part. To have a motivated break in the middle is one way to do it, the other way to go smoothly through. It might be easier in the beginning, to use the break that you have in the middle for every card. That way, there is no breaking the rhythm. Like 1-break-2-break-3-break-4-break-5-break-6-break-7-break-8-break. From that point you just start to get smoother and smoother.
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