I need a good, cheap, and natural looking force. My current one is really angle sensative.
Thanks in advance!

What about the old 'riffle force'?

I'll do a search, but if anyone knows where to find it I'll be grateful.

The Riffle Force can be learned in Card College Volume 1, by Robert Giobbi.

Sorry, I already found it through Google.
(Isn't it a shame how much magic is being given away free on the internet).

Isn't it a shame how many people don't pay their dues and try to learn any magic they can for free on the internet?

Couldn't agree more...oh well, at least we'll have been taught by the expert

King of Diamonds

Danny Diamond writes: "Isn't it a shame how many people don't pay their dues and try to learn any magic they can for free on the internet?"

As opposed to learning it for free at the public library, as I did more than 50 years ago?

Peter,
I wouldn't expect that kind of response from you. I really thought this would have been an issue you would have sided with me about. I guess I thought wrong.

I thought being against internet exposure of magic and effects would be a good stance to take. I thought it was noble to want to pay respect to the masters. I thought it was admirable to put forth effort into learning the secrets and techniques of the magicians who have come before us. I give up, this magic community is too confusing.

Mr. Diamond,
Unfortunately your post sounded like a shot to The Hungry Magician who is just trying to research a new force. My guess is you didn't intend that to be so.

Well, it wasn't really a shot at him personally. I was just kind of taking a shot at the idea of people simply surfing the Internet to find out the secrets to magic. I guess I just really like the idea of seeking out material in books, and the fact that material that I learned from these books, which I paid good money for, can now be found all over the Net for free.

I thought the idea of free magic being available on the Internet was frowned upon by most serious magicians, but I guess I was wrong. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

I believe that internet free exposure of magic effects and sleights is wrong.

But I also see the point Mr Marucci makes. Its no difference if you view internet as a super duper easy to search and extremely comprehensive library; we would not penalise someone who takes the effort to search out magic books in library. Just that this modern day, the internet is the ultimate library.

Yet again I feel that sleights being made available freely on the net is just wrong.... But I can't think of a rational explanation yet. Just feels wrong.

Will need to meditate on it.

Someone will onyl stumble upon the magic if they are looking for it in a library. People who wnat to borrow magic books will be interested in learning magic because they have taken the time and effort to go down to the library and search for it.
Hardly any effort is needed to do such a search on the Internet, and it is a way for laymen just wanting to know how a trick is done. No laymen would borrow a magic book from the library, which may take ages to read and find the trick they are looking for. They may have a quick look on the Internet one night.

I think it is a shame, because I remember showing 'bitten coin' to a friend at school a while ago, and he happened to be on the computer at the time. The second I had finished my trick, (which fooled him) he opened up Internet explorer and typed in bitten coin in google and the first thing that came up was 'bent coin'and a picture of it. That annoys me, and that is why magic should not be exposed on the Internet.

K of D

KofD,
The exact same thing once happened to me with the Bitten Coin when I was first starting out. I did the effect for a few people here at work, and one guy simply did a search online and found many images of "precisely cut quarters" and "bitten coin effects" showing the gimmick in use. This made me a bit upset at the easy access laymen have to finding out secrets online.

On the other hand though, it has made me work harder on better effects. I now mostly perform effects that are not gimmicked, making it much harder for an ambitious laymen to look it up online. So in a sense, I guess it has made me take my magic to a higher level.

Back to the original question in this forum, I would also recommend the Cross Cut Force as a simple, yet effective force. Make sure you use a time delay when doing the Cross-Cut.

There is absolutely no difference between finding the magic moves in a library or finding them on the internet. Either way, you get it free. The only difference I could see is that the gratification is more instantanious. And just because you shelled out good money for something doesn't mean that's the only way it should be done. For that matter, some of us don't have the financial resources to buy Card College or AOA. And this isn't about paying dues. What does spending money on a book have to do with "paying your dues"? That's such an out-dated notion, it's absurd.

Hungry Magician, I know what it's like to be broke but thirsting for the knowledge. Just so you know, some of us wish you luck in your searches.

Wow, that's quite a response Firedice, sorry to have got you so worked up!

Let me clarify a few things. First off, I agree with you in that there is not much of a difference between free magic online or at the library. The only slight difference is the extra effort required in making a trip to the library and searching for the info, as opposed to sitting on your butt on your PC and finding it with ease. My only thought is that maybe that little bit of extra effort in going to the library would separate the curious laymen from the interested student of magic. I think that's a valid thought, no? I know for a fact that the guy who looked up my bitten coin trick online, wouldn't have made the effort to go to a library to try to research it. But anyway, onto my second point...

By "paying your dues", I didn't exactly mean shelling out a ton of money for expensive sets of books. But when you make an investment into something, and then realize other people are gaining the knowledge for free, after you paid for it, I think it's only natural to feel a bit bitter.

As far as helping this guy out, and wishing him luck in his searches, well maybe you missed some of my posts. Yes, I made a comment about internet exposure, but I also told him a specific place to learn the Riffle Force, and I also recommended the Cross-Cut Force to him. I did try to help the guy out.

Anyway, I'm very sorry to upset anyone by my posts. I didn't realize so many people would be offended by or against my point above. Next time I will keep my mouth shut.

My library's magic books are all "no sleight of hand" super-beginner books. I guess I overlooked the Cross-Cut (people with high IQs can figure it out). It appears to be more effective than I thought. I already tried the riffle, and it worked. Thanks for all your help!

Sorry for getting back on topic, but at penguinmagic you can get "Five Forces", instant download, for $5.95. Here is the link. http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=629
Christopher

People with low IQ's can figure it out too, if you don't do it right. There are a lot of subtleties that go along with any force or sleight, and they really help in the effectiveness. Little things like the right time delay for the Cross-Cut, or certain phrasing of lines, requests or instructions, can make a world of difference. Try to really research the particular force you are using, learn all of the little subtleties involved in it. Even a seemingly simple force like the Cross-Cut can go unnoticed if the effect that follows is strong. If you do the Cross-Cut, then simply announce what card they cut to, it will be VERY easy for them to backtrack and figure out the method of the force. If you have a nice routine to perform after the force, then there is a better chance of them forgetting about the cut all together, and it will never even be considered as a method. Does that make sense?

I just watched the penguin magic link - that third force one he shows is sooooo obviosu! I'd never even seen it before and its too obvious.

Anyone agree?
K of D