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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Can every trick be improved on? (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Daegs
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Every unique magician's perfect version is different from the rest.

Every trick can be improved for you, though not necessarily for everyone else. A lot of the classics are such because they are adaptable to many unique personalities.
Rupert Pupkin
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Quote:
On Mar 11, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 11, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 11, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Rupert wrote:
"We should strive to improve every trick, always, because they will never be finished."

I agree with the first part- that we should strive to improve. But the second part has me wondering. Some effects, I believe, are finished. Surely, there must be a point in which an effect cannot be improved. Changed?, adapted?, tinkered with? Absolutely. But improved? Possibly, but always? I'm not so sure.


I'll ask again. What do you mean by "improved"? A trick is made up of a dozen little components: premise, presentation, method, handling...

Also, I don't believe that tricks exist independent of their performer and performing contexts. I can't think of a single trick that is one-size-fits-all in either respect. But hit me with any examples if you can.

You tell us , Rupert. In your opinion, what improves a trick?


What improves a book?

(In other words, it's a nonsense question. If you have a specific trick in mind, let's talk about that. I was just qualifying your broad and unfocused question.)
magicfish
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I disagree. I think it is a valid question and one that thoughtful constructors should always be considering.
I feel there are ideas that can serve to improve all card magic regardless of the specific trick.
Rupert Pupkin
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My answer is: It depends on the trick... and what needs improving.
Inert
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I'd say sometimes yes & sometimes no. For example, I've never seen any improvement to Card Warp. It's already a masterpiece. Any changes I've seen wreck the effect. On the other hand, numerous effects have been radically improved over the history of magic.
fonda57
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I mentioned a specific trick Smile
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fonda57
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There is an episode of Big Bang Theory that fits right in here. Howard kept doing a card trick and Sheldon wanted to figure it out. He then claimed to have then improved on it but the method that was so blatant it was immediately revealed by someone else.

Which makes me wonder: who decides when a trick is improved?
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magicfish
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Quote:
On Mar 11, 2019, fonda57 wrote:
Can Darwin Ortiz Pschotronic Card be improved? ive developed ways to do it other than how it is written, but does that improve it?

Darwin Ortiz is a great example. Many of his effects are wonderfully constructed.
His sleight selection (or elimination) is sublime. Can Psychotronic Card be improved on? Good question. If it can, I'd sure like to see it.
ekgdoc
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I am not sure if EVERY card trick can be improved on. But I am certain that every card trick can be made worse.

David M.
landmark
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Quote:
On Mar 12, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 11, 2019, fonda57 wrote:
Can Darwin Ortiz Pschotronic Card be improved? ive developed ways to do it other than how it is written, but does that improve it?

Darwin Ortiz is a great example. Many of his effects are wonderfully constructed.
His sleight selection (or elimination) is sublime. Can Psychotronic Card be improved on? Good question. If it can, I'd sure like to see it.


I haven't seen Ortiz perform that trick, but I've seen him perform many others. Generally, I think his stage persona is kind of stiff. If I were a paid consultant, that's what I would tell him to work on. Technique is not all.
Bobby Forbes
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For those interested, here is Ortiz performing
"psychotronic card"

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3840
The Burnaby Kid
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On Mar 11, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Can Psychotronic Card be improved on? Good question. If it can, I'd sure like to see it.


Well, start with the Mind Movie. If you were capable of REAL magic, how would the trick look?
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magicfish
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If I was capable of real magic, things would basically just appear and disappear, transform, transport, levitate, combust, animate, etc. I doubt there would be card plots.
helder
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Quote:
On Mar 11, 2019, fonda57 wrote:
Can Darwin Ortiz Pschotronic Card be improved? ive developed ways to do it other than how it is written, but does that improve it?


It can, absolutely. After many years Darwin still does changes to make it better. For example, now he does it with the spectator holding the deck instead of just leaving it on the table. Looks like a detail but makes the effect stronger.

In my opinion you can improve every routine. I look at every word I say, the pace, the pauses, the moves. I've routines that I've performed more than 1000 times and I still change details.
The Burnaby Kid
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On Mar 12, 2019, magicfish wrote:
I doubt there would be card plots.


You wouldn't deal yourself a royal flush whenever you wanted?

You wouldn't want to play underspeed a la Ricky Jay, you wouldn't beat them with the hand just above theirs?

You wouldn't use your powers to read minds at the poker table?

You wouldn't want to sneak extra cards into your hand?

You wouldn't want to make bad cards disappear from your hand?

You wouldn't want the best card in every hand to jump into yours?

You wouldn't want to show that the spectator's intuition was uncanny?

You wouldn't want to show you could read the future?

This doesn't even begin to cover what would happen if magic were real but you weren't in perfect control of it. Fred Kaps, Tommy Wonder...
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magicfish
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No. If I wanted money I would make it appear in my wallet as my toothbrush floated up and scrubbed my teeth. I wouldn't need a casino.
Can we please stick to card tricks?
The Burnaby Kid
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On Mar 12, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Can we please stick to card tricks?


I mean... do you want to? You don't seem to have a very high appreciation of the meaning behind them. Either that, or you're dismissing the point so as to gain an edge in an argument, when that very point will help you understand how to answer your own question that started this whole thing off.
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magicfish
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Once agsin will give the benefit of the doubt and assume your condescension and arrogance is unintended and a result of impersonal electronic communication.
As far as appreciation of card magic goes, I have devoted my life to them. I'm certain I've been doing them, studying them, practicing them, longer than you have. But I don't know why I'm under scrutiny here. As far as understanding my own question, I understand it perfectly and have provided my opinion/answer. I can clarify or elaborate if you wish.
As far as gaining an edge in an argument I feel there is no argument here, I just wanted a friendly discussion about a topic near and dear to my heart. If you can do that then by all means I hope you stick around. If you're looking to argue I'm not interested. Thanks.
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On Mar 12, 2019, magicfish wrote:
...your condescension and arrogance...


No, I'm actually genuinely baffled. You're curious to know about how and whether card tricks can be improved, and the question is put to you as to what you would do if you could REALLY do magic, and you dismiss it outright. The fact that you don't see how some of the questions asked would intrigue a regular spectator makes me wonder if you do appreciate card magic.

I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt, so let's try a different question. A supernatural being comes down to earth and bestows upon you supernatural power over cards. What do you do with that power?
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JBSmith1978
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Quote:
On Mar 10, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Hey folks.
Here is a question for discussion.
Can every card effect ever devised be improved on?


Define your terms.

Do you mean improving method, plot, impact, wonder? In general I would say yes. Regarding a specific performer? I would say yes. Both performer and audience is a moving target.

If you want to limit the extent one can improve something by let's say overgeneralizing terms, then no.
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